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Old March 28th, 2013, 05:18 PM   #401
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I thought you were supposed to let God judge people. I didn't realize he appointed you guys to do it. You'd know better than me.
Will I be sending them to hell? No, and hopefully that won't be the case.
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Old March 28th, 2013, 07:31 PM   #402
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Alot of dead horses in this thread.
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Old March 28th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #403
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #404
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I am happy to report that none of my facebook friends changed their pictures.
Is that because most of your FB friends are old and can't figure out how to? .


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Do most of you think God will be mad at you if don't actively try to subvert gays and their lifestyle?
I'm not trying to keep them from doing it, I'm trying to get them to see that, according to the Bible, they are in sin and they Need Jesus.

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....and that bible may be the word of God BUT it is the word of God as remembered by and written down by humans in some cases hundreds of years after the events it records. and that bible does not contain all the writings that could / may be considered as true scripture.

when i see a copy of the bible autographed by God, then i will start taking it literally.
Do you fully believe that Socrates wrote his books? Those manuscripts sum up to about 8. The bible has over 10 thousand. Most of those copies, for the NT, being far closer to the event then Socraties manuscripts to his events.

The issue doesn't lie in the manuscripts, its lies in how it makes people feel about thier actions. That's why most people try and say the bible was some written down game of "telephone" instead of knowing that a majority of the accepted bible's texts (because this was one of the factors at the councel that chose those books) have manuscripts that are with in a hundred years of the event.

I should also point out that if we lived in the same culture as them (not many wrote/read) our games of telephone wouldn't be as fun because we'd remember stuff much better then we do now.


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Here is another thought for discussion. Jesus was Jewish. All major branches of modern Judaism with exception to Orthodox support gay marriage. And Orthodox Jews do not claim Jesus as one of them, so we can assume Jesus was some other sort of Jew. So Jesus' own religion supports gay marriage. Thoughts?
"I did not come to take away the law but to fulfill it." His #2 reason to be on this earth was to fulill the sacrificial requirements of the OT law so that we wouldn't have to follow those laws requiring atonement. I can tell you, because it says in thier torah (our OT) that they do not accept Homosexuality along with all the other sins. Or they shouldn't. The bread and butter of the anti-gay (which I am not, I'm pro Jesus) christian movement is the OT texts.

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Can anyone give an actual reason to not allow gay marriage, without citing religion?

Didn't think so, because there isn't one. Just like segregation, people are just to single minded and stand to tall on their soap box
Can you give me a reason why we have to call it marriage? Why not have the government call it a Union, partnership, obamaship, etc?


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O really? Me thinks you need to consult someone who actually knows history, and not fiction.

And the king James bible is not the words those dudes wrote. Not even close.

Maybe 150 years, but definitely not 25.

And i have suffered through 12 years of catholic school. Father John was actually the guy that made a lot of us aware of other religions and encouraged us to learn about them. At least he got it, and trusted in the faith instead of blatantly lying about it to get more people interested.

Seriously aber, Woohoo, and others - check a freakin calendar. It is 2013.
Please see my post to jimhri about manuscripts and years. If you're willing to accept some of the other authors of ancient times with a mere 8 or 9 manuscripts then why not the bible with 10+ thousand?

The KJV bible was written by King James, of course it's not the original words. I don't think any body ever said it was. However, I can tell you that there are dozens of translations that come straight from the original text and language. It just so happens that those translations seem to line up with the KJV and other translations.

I'm sorry you think you had to suffer. Probably because your parents forced you to. I've been raised Christian, going on 27 years, the part I hated most was wearing a tie. Learning how the bible, as a whole, tells the story of God getting his Children back excites me.


(rolls dead horse over "you missed a spot")
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:40 PM   #405
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It's time for all of you to fill out this form and return it to ClarkstonCracker via PM.

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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:41 PM   #406
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(rolls dead horse over "you missed a spot")
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:42 PM   #407
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I'm not trying to keep them from doing it, I'm trying to get them to see that, according to the Bible, they are in sin and they Need Jesus.
Ok. I'm friends with a deeply religious (christian) guy who just recently came to grips with his sexuality. He is still a religious guy, he just KNOWS that he is gay and he was born that way. He has Jesus. So, now what?
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:43 PM   #408
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Ok. I'm friends with a deeply religious (christian) guy who just recently came to grips with his sexuality. He is still a religious guy, he just KNOWS that he is gay and he was born that way. He has Jesus. So, now what?
He obviously doesn't have Jesus, because Jesus hates gays. Just ask any true devout Christian.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #409
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He obviously doesn't have Jesus, because Jesus hates gays. Just ask any true devout Christian.
This guy is the most devout 22 year old I have ever met. Very conservative as well. He's a strict Constitutionalist and believes its a states rights issue. He hates the way that the argument is going right now.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #410
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Ok. I'm friends with a deeply religious (christian) guy who just recently came to grips with his sexuality. He is still a religious guy, he just KNOWS that he is gay and he was born that way. He has Jesus. So, now what?
Then it's between him and God. If he 'has Jesus' then he knows where he stands with God. I've been a Christian since I was 5. I came to grips with my sexuality when I was around 13, I like women. I would like to have sex with the ones that I find to be attractive, I don't do this because It's called Adultery. Can I still talk these women? Can I still be their friends? Yes. I just can't have sex with them because I know it's not right in God's eyes to do so.

If he is a devout Christian then he would also know that suffering bring perseverance and, if done right, brings us closer to God.

I'll pray for your 'friend'.

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He obviously doesn't have Jesus, because Jesus hates gays. Just ask any true devout Christian.
See what I did up there, I gave a straight forward, honest answer that seems pretty logical and doesn't even quote the bible.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #411
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Then it's between him and God. If he 'has Jesus' then he knows where he stands with God. I've been a Christian since I was 5. I came to grips with my sexuality when I was around 13, I like women. I would like to have sex with the ones that I find to be attractive, I don't do this because It's called Adultery. Can I still talk these women? Can I still be their friends? Yes. I just can't have sex with them because I know it's not right in God's eyes to do so.

If he is a devout Christian then he would also know that suffering bring perseverance and, if done right, brings us closer to God.

I'll pray for your 'friend'.



See what I did up there, I gave a straight forward, honest answer that seems pretty logical and doesn't even quote the bible.
Want a fucking cookie? I could care less what you have to say, how you said it, or why you said it.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #412
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This guy is the most devout 22 year old I have ever met. Very conservative as well. He's a strict Constitutionalist and believes its a states rights issue. He hates the way that the argument is going right now.
Understood. I was just being a smartass.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #413
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Want a fucking cookie? I could care less what you have to say, how you said it, or why you said it.
He means well, it's just his religion makes the words that come out of his mouth seem kind of douchey. "Like gee, it's too bad that god made you a homosexual and that he hates that, but I guess if you don't want to go to hell, you better not act on any completely natural sexual urges you feel."
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Old March 29th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #414
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Want a fucking cookie? I could care less what you have to say, how you said it, or why you said it.
Then why are you reading and commenting on it?
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:00 PM   #415
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I've been a Christian since I was 5. I came to grips with my sexuality when I was around 13, I like women. I would like to have sex with the ones that I find to be attractive, I don't do this because It's called Adultery. Can I still talk these women? Can I still be their friends? Yes. I just can't have sex with them because I know it's not right in God's eyes to do so.
Serious question, do you have sex with anyone?

You may have mentioned a wife or something in another post, but I'm not scrolling back through all that to find out.

Or are you a Priest/Monk/Shaker?
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #416
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It's time for all of you to fill out this form and return it to ClarkstonCracker via PM.

Lol :D Awesome!
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:11 PM   #417
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Then why are you reading and commenting on it?
Because it is important to me that he is aware of that.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 02:18 PM   #418
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Want a fucking cookie? I could care less what you have to say, how you said it, or why you said it.
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Then why are you reading and commenting on it?
This. GM, you have a skewed opinion on how most Christians act. I'm trying to show you that some of us are completely capable of being honest and telling it how it is.


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Serious question, do you have sex with anyone?

You may have mentioned a wife or something in another post, but I'm not scrolling back through all that to find out.

Or are you a Priest/Monk/Shaker?
I'm not a priest. I have a wife and two kids. I didn't get married till I was 23 and never slept with anybody else. It sucked, I wanted to but I knew it was not right in God's sight.

I can see where you are going with this though. I would say that, referring back to my previous post for Sova, is that God doesn't give us more then we can handle and in our suffering we are drawn closer to him. A Christian 'born gay' may have a even stronger faith then I because they do not have that relationship with someone they want to but do so in reverence to God's word and his commandments.

Personally I have no problem with people loving other people. My problem lies with the Sex. Talk to any therapist, secular or Christian, and they will tell you a sex is a key component in any Marriage. I think that act, between same sex couples, is perverse. Does that make them horrible people? No. It makes them a product of our culture.

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He means well, it's just his religion makes the words that come out of his mouth seem kind of douchey. "Like gee, it's too bad that god made you a homosexual and that he hates that, but I guess if you don't want to go to hell, you better not act on any completely natural sexual urges you feel."
So you don't hold back any natural urges you have on a daily basis? I know I do. If I didn't I'd be in jail for murder.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 02:35 PM   #419
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I picked up new tires(new to me) for the jeep last night. Apparently I have a natural desire for super swampers. I can't help it.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 03:47 PM   #420
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So you don't hold back any natural urges you have on a daily basis? I know I do. If I didn't I'd be in jail for murder.
Sure I suppose I do hold back natural urges, however, ive never wanted to murder anyone, so you might want to get that checked out. Though, your plan for my friend is to never have sex. I don't think that's a reasonable plan and I'm pretty sure you understand this.
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