Discuss. (another religion thread, so we're not mucking up Immortal's) - Page 4 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 21st, 2013, 06:13 AM   #61
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Lol. Only critique the parts of the bible that you've memorized...
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:23 AM   #62
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,922
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Lol. Only critique the parts of the bible that you've memorized...
No, I'm sick of people saying they've read the bible and all they've found is contradictions but, in reality, they've really just found a website that tells them all the contradictions and they believe the author because it fits what THEY want. My Challenge is to try and show the consistency in God's plan through the text of the bible. I want the skeptics to do the work on this.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 07:46 AM   #63
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
No, I'm sick of people saying they've read the bible and all they've found is contradictions but, in reality, they've really just found a website that tells them all the contradictions and they believe the author because it fits what THEY want. My Challenge is to try and show the consistency in God's plan through the text of the bible. I want the skeptics to do the work on this.
I'll be the first to tell you, I've never read the bible cover to cover, however, I've found enough problems with it for me to dismiss it.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 08:07 AM   #64
GreaseMonkey
Senior Member
 
GreaseMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Washington, MI
Posts: 17,973
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
No, I'm sick of people saying they've read the bible and all they've found is contradictions but, in reality, they've really just found a website that tells them all the contradictions and they believe the author because it fits what THEY want. My Challenge is to try and show the consistency in God's plan through the text of the bible. I want the skeptics to do the work on this.
I'll add that to my list of shit to do that will never accomplish anything. You're truly blinded, so even if I point it all out to you underlined and highlighted, you still won't understand anything other than from your own point of view.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
I am not a lesbian but if I was I would do her.
GreaseMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 08:10 AM   #65
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,907
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
No, I'm sick of people saying they've read the bible and all they've found is contradictions but, in reality, they've really just found a website that tells them all the contradictions and they believe the author because it fits what THEY want. My Challenge is to try and show the consistency in God's plan through the text of the bible. I want the skeptics to do the work on this.
This is a fair complaint, and a fair challenge.

I have read portions of the bible (never the whole thing cover to cover) and it doesn't do much for me, but I think what you are saying is fair.

I really wish I could interview some dead people and see if they are in heaven, hell, an urn, or some currently frozen dirt just below the frost line.
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 08:25 AM   #66
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I'll be the first to tell you, I've never read the bible cover to cover, however, I've found enough problems with it for me to dismiss it.
I guess you could post the scripture that you have problems with and give some of us a chance to look it over.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 08:58 AM   #67
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
I'll add that to my list of shit to do that will never accomplish anything. You're truly blinded, so even if I point it all out to you underlined and highlighted, you still won't understand anything other than from your own point of view.
If Scott and other Christians like myself are truly blinded, then why is it we can see the wonders of what God has done, but you cannot?
God reveals Himself to those who truly seek Him. Whether it be through His word or visions or dreams, (or other people).
One passage I remember, "Seek and you will find Him".

There is evidence of a creator. I believe that if you were to give the "God theroy" a look with an open mind you would see that there is more to it than meets the eye.
When you do find Him and God reveals himself to you then your blinders will be removed and I'm not saying this to be rude or condicending, I'm saying this because that is how it happened to me.

For years I thought on the same lines as you and many others here. I did not have time, religion is for the weak minded, i had better stuff to do with my time.
Well, I was skeptical and it was a slow process, I jumped in with both feet and eventually I began to see things differently(renewing of the mind)than the way I used to see things.
That is when God can show you, not before.
Give it a try, can't hurt.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 11:19 AM   #68
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,922
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I'll be the first to tell you, I've never read the bible cover to cover, however, I've found enough problems with it for me to dismiss it.
If you only read parts of a book for a large piece of legislation would that make it ok to not follow that law once it's passed? Or maybe you just didn't understand the wording so you'd probably go to a lawyer or politician to have them explain it. Why would you do that? Because they've read the whole thing and understand what the whole of the book says.

I'm not saying I completely understand the bible but I'm around people that have studied for longer then I've been alive and they understand the intricacies of that book.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
I'll add that to my list of shit to do that will never accomplish anything. You're truly blinded, so even if I point it all out to you underlined and highlighted, you still won't understand anything other than from your own point of view.
OK, I'll be honest, I think you're blinded by your own ideals. That Christians are all Judgmental people that think thier way is the only way. We may believe that but we recognize that every person has the right to think that there is another way to God. Our belief, according to our book, that we believe is inspired by God, is that there is only one way.

Jesus, who we believe is God in an earthly body, said it him self "I am the way the truth and the life, not one comes to the father except through me.". There is not continuing text that says "or.....you can dance around 3 times on one foot".

I live my life in full belief that the holy bible is the inspired by God and put my faith in the words that are spoken by Jesus in it. Why, in any logical way, would you think that I would be willing to believe anything other then what he said?

*I am fully aware that other people believe in other ways and that's thier right. BUT, because I believe in one way, I'm going to try and show them through my life style and the bible that Jesus is the only way. Not because I'm judging them, but because I know what awaits them for all eternity. Absence from God and all his Characteristics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
This is a fair complaint, and a fair challenge.

I have read portions of the bible (never the whole thing cover to cover) and it doesn't do much for me, but I think what you are saying is fair.

I really wish I could interview some dead people and see if they are in heaven, hell, an urn, or some currently frozen dirt just below the frost line.
I'll even concede to the restriction that I can't use any Christian or theological websites to argue my case. The only website a may use it Blue letter bible.com because of the extensive lexicon's and references on that site.

The only (once) dead person I talk to is Jesus. .
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 11:47 AM   #69
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
If you only read parts of a book for a large piece of legislation would that make it ok to not follow that law once it's passed? Or maybe you just didn't understand the wording so you'd probably go to a lawyer or politician to have them explain it. Why would you do that? Because they've read the whole thing and understand what the whole of the book says.

I'm not saying I completely understand the bible but I'm around people that have studied for longer then I've been alive and they understand the intricacies of that book.
Great advice. You seem to have dismissed Islam...Have you done a full reading and study of the Koran?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 11:50 AM   #70
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,505
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Great advice. You seem to have dismissed Islam...Have you done a full reading and study of the Koran?
Why do you care what we believe. Stop pushing your atheism beliefs down out throats!
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 12:00 PM   #71
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,083
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Great advice. You seem to have dismissed Islam...Have you done a full reading and study of the Koran?
Back on topic, stop picking and choosing. Stop changing the subject.
The topic is Christianity and the belief in God not Islam.
You want to more about Islam, ask a muslim.
It seems to me that you have no intention of taking to heart what we are discussing.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 12:25 PM   #72
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Back on topic, stop picking and choosing. Stop changing the subject.
The topic is Christianity and the belief in God not Islam.
You want to more about Islam, ask a muslim.
It seems to me that you have no intention of taking to heart what we are discussing.
I'm not changing the subject, I'm making a point. I can't believe you're not following my logic.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 02:03 PM   #73
GreaseMonkey
Senior Member
 
GreaseMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Washington, MI
Posts: 17,973
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Sorry sova, you're on your own.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
I am not a lesbian but if I was I would do her.
GreaseMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 02:06 PM   #74
kickstand
sHaMoNe!
 
kickstand's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-20-06
Location: fenton
Posts: 30,907
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
I'm not changing the subject, I'm making a point. I can't believe you're not following my logic.
winner winner chicken dinner.
kickstand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 02:46 PM   #75
BlooMule
pew pew
 
BlooMule's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: a mile from the shithole
Posts: 24,681
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Default

So- aber believes.

It works for him.

I don't.

It works for me.


Why can't people just let it go?
__________________
-rw-rw-rw
BlooMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 03:58 PM   #76
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,922
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Great advice. You seem to have dismissed Islam...Have you done a full reading and study of the Koran?
Touche`

The difference is I may listen to someone who is Islamic because I realize they know thier faith better then I do. Or, if you wanted to follow the analogy, I would listen to the lawyer. I wouldn't tell them that they are ignorant and then mock thier faith repeatably.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 04:45 PM   #77
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Touche`

The difference is I may listen to someone who is Islamic because I realize they know thier faith better then I do. Or, if you wanted to follow the analogy, I would listen to the lawyer. I wouldn't tell them that they are ignorant and then mock thier faith repeatably.
You may listen? How will you know if it has more to offer than your current beliefs if you don't have a deep and thorough study of the Koran?

p.s. I don't see the meme pictures as mocking, but rather addressing legitimate questions/claims in a whimsical fashion.

Also, I'm not calling you ignorant, Robert Ingersoll was addressing faith, calling it a mix of insanity and ignorance. Faith is believing in something without evidence. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Having faith involves a lack of knowledge. If you know something exists, you don't need faith. The insanity portion is probably just bluster. I know plenty of people of faith and don't think they are insane.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2013, 04:52 PM   #78
BlooMule
pew pew
 
BlooMule's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: a mile from the shithole
Posts: 24,681
iTrader: (12)
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Default

Faith is believing in something common sense tells you not to.

From 'Miracle on 34th street', which oddly enough- was referring to believing in Santa Claus, the secular icon of Christmas.
__________________
-rw-rw-rw
BlooMule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 22nd, 2013, 10:38 PM   #79
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,922
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
You may listen? How will you know if it has more to offer than your current beliefs if you don't have a deep and thorough study of the Koran?
I've talked to enough Islamic people, even debated with them, to understand thier faith. What I've learned from them (and I did learn from them instead of telling them they were wrong) was that I like Christianity better because of what it brings to the table. That And those expierences I've had have lined up with the Christian God more so then the Islamic one.

Quote:

p.s. I don't see the meme pictures as mocking, but rather addressing legitimate questions/claims in a whimsical fashion.

Also, I'm not calling you ignorant, Robert Ingersoll was addressing faith, calling it a mix of insanity and ignorance. Faith is believing in something without evidence. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Having faith involves a lack of knowledge. If you know something exists, you don't need faith. The insanity portion is probably just bluster. I know plenty of people of faith and don't think they are insane.
Faith is not necessarily a lack of Knowledge. It could be argued that it's a better understanding of things that can't be explained. Some of the greatest minds where believers and they didn't show a lack of knowledge. There passion to Glorify God by understanding his creation brought us many inventions and theories that we still use today.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 23rd, 2013, 08:37 AM   #80
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,782
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I've talked to enough Islamic people, even debated with them, to understand thier faith. What I've learned from them (and I did learn from them instead of telling them they were wrong) was that I like Christianity better because of what it brings to the table. That And those expierences I've had have lined up with the Christian God more so then the Islamic one.

Did I say you were wrong? I don't think I did. Anyway, you have a lot more religions to cover, if you want to have a deep understanding of all of them before you dismiss them.

Faith is not necessarily a lack of Knowledge. It could be argued that it's a better understanding of things that can't be explained. Some of the greatest minds where believers and they didn't show a lack of knowledge. There passion to Glorify God by understanding his creation brought us many inventions and theories that we still use today.
I'm not saying that having faith means you have a overwhelming lack of knowledge, I'm just saying that you have a lack of KNOWledge in the thing that you have faith in. I.e. do you KNOW for a fact, that god exists. I'll answer for you, no. If you did KNOW, you wouldn't need faith, you would already have knowledge. knowledge > faith.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.30643 seconds with 81 queries