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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:26 PM   #41
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Because Christianity is the only mainstream religion where God comes to us, his creation, to make what we did to him right. Any other Mainstream religion that has a heaven or hell or some form of afterlife requires the believer to try work thier way to thier eternal place in 'heaven'.
wha?
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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:32 PM   #42
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wha?
Comprehension, it's a gift from God
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Old March 19th, 2013, 08:44 PM   #43
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To win people over to God it's how you live your life, how you treat others. They see a difference in you and they wonder why you are different. The rest is up to God.
People cannot make anybody come to God. It has to be a willingness on your part, then God will reveal himself to you.
I've been hanging out with some Buddhists lately and they seem like pretty awesome people also. Much less judgmental that many Christians.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:04 PM   #44
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I've been hanging out with some Buddhists lately and they seem like pretty awesome people also. Much less judgmental that many Christians.
It might be good for the here and now, but what about eternity?
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:34 PM   #45
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It might be good for the here and now, but what about eternity?
They tend to teach acceptance of the unknown and don't make promises about it.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:38 PM   #46
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I see God every day in the wonders of the world. Watching my children being born was an amazing reaffirmation of God's touch on our lives.

Nothing anyone can say to you will make you believe but when the Holy Spirit fill your heart you will know and I pray every day it happens.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #47
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I may need to admit that I was wrong.

You're somewhat logical (actually your defense of your faith has never really bothered me), it usually boils down to when I ask if you can understand why other people have chosen a different path/faith/religion than you.

I get people believe in what they believe in, but what drives me nuts is when people are so closedminded about someone elses beleifs and how they think theirs are the only way and that person must change.

I have my beleifs, you have yours, I see nothing wrong with my having my beliefs and you having yours. You're welcome to have yours, I'm welcome to have mine. I realize that my beleifs are not the only way to get through life and end up in a good place when I die. Hopefully you can do the same.....for Abe, well, I don't think he is logical enough to do the same.
That's kind of the problem though. According to my faith the only way to 'a good place' (mostly because the opposite of which is a bad place) is through Jesus Christ. I understand that everybody has the right to have that choice. I just try my best to point them to what I, in all honest and truth, believe to be the only way to heaven.

Teller, from Pen and Teller, said it very well. I'll paraphrase but basically, he said you shouldn't find it offensive if Christians share thier faith or even try to get you to accept it as your own because that is proof that they care about you and where they believe your soul is going.

That is the driving force behind the gospel.

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Are you just the resident christian spokesperson or do you actually offroad?
That's funny. You think people on here have to off road .

I used to have a lifted truck and took it off road every once in a while. I've since started a family; started working, on salary, for a non-profit organization (I don't make that much) and don't have the time to pursue a sport I think I would really enjoy.

I target shoot a recurve bow, I love walking to work through the forest (I work at a Christian Camp and live on grounds), I teach kids how to build fires, structures, relationships and memories. I love the outdoors and love serving God through his creation.


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wha?
We were born with sin because of Adam and Eve's original sin. God has since then been trying to (and had a plan to before) to restore us to our pre-sin state. You may think that we have to work to get rid of the sin in our lives, we don't. Christ did that on the cross.

God came to us to take care of the sin we put on our selves. No other mainstream religion has the deity do all the work. Especially Islam. The only step the Christian has to take is to accept what Christ did and turn around from the life they lived before.

AND, even if we screw that up, God still shows us grace; Time, after time, after time. Also a attribute most Deities do not share with Yahweh.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #48
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wha?
I think he's right about that. Christianity is the only one I know of that promises heaven for just believing and having faith. All other that I know of expect you to do things to earn your place.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #49
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That's funny because every time I use scripture in my arguements I make sure it's in context and could read you the whole chapter, and if you had the time, the whole book and show you what it means.

That line of thinking is also pretty flawed when you take into account, which I don't expect you to because you probably don't know, that there are countless pastors that do what is called 'preaching through the bible'. This is where they will start at Mark 1 and go all the way through the book. Preaching every text that is in the book, explaining how it fits into the entirety of the bible. My pastor specifically will pick the verses that most Christians tend to shy away from and blow them up to point to the Gospel. He can do this because he has a Doctorate in Biblical studies and knows Hebrew, Greek, and Arabic.

Bull fucking shit. All of the good verses and nice peaceful stuff is what gets handpicked out of the bible. No one reads the violent stuff, or preaches on that. It's relatively ignored. Or, if they do pick the violent verses, the pastor or preacher twists it into somehow being some positive thing. And don't fucking tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I went to church as a kid, and went through six years of Catholic school. You can't tell me that there isn't some pretty dark, scary and violent stuff in both the new testament and the old testament.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #50
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I think he's right about that. Christianity is the only one I know of that promises heaven for just believing and having faith. All other that I know of expect you to do things to earn your place.
Its a claim of the religion, not a reason to believe, as far as I can tell. Telling me that belief is all I need to reap the reward, doesn't make a claim any easier to believe.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #51
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Bull fucking shit. All of the good verses and nice peaceful stuff is what gets handpicked out of the bible. No one reads the violent stuff, or preaches on that. It's relatively ignored. Or, if they do pick the violent verses, the pastor or preacher twists it into somehow being some positive thing. And don't fucking tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I went to church as a kid, and went through six years of Catholic school. You can't tell me that there isn't some pretty dark, scary and violent stuff in both the new testament and the old testament.
Oh heck yeah, there are tons of very dark parts of the bible. Never said there wasn't but they all point a need for a savoir. Most of Christ's Lineage was messed up people who cheated, lied, and did all sorts of 'ungodly' things. His earthly Dad almost quietly disowned his mother before he was born. Mosses was a drunk. The list goes on. None of that devalues the Gospel. If anything it explodes the gospel because it shows how God used the least 'Godly' people to bring his plan to completion through Christ.

Then there is the whole "Why did God kill so many people argument". Most of the time we try to look at history (in a general sense, not just biblical events) through 21st century eyes. You killed people to survive and God showed favor to his beloved people so that his plan for the whole planet would come to completion. He also used those times to discipline his children when to show them, and us today, that the best direction is following after the creator of the universe.

I hate doing this because I really don't have the time. But Try me.
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Old March 19th, 2013, 10:32 PM   #52
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Its a claim of the religion, not a reason to believe, as far as I can tell. Telling me that belief is all I need to reap the reward, doesn't make a claim any easier to believe.
It's the easiest religion to follow because it requires one step. Any other reason would fall under "I can't really tell you because you think the bible is hokum".

The reason to believe is because you are sinful man. Welcome to the club, we are all sinners. We have absoulty no way to get rid of all our sin so we deserve death. Christ lived a perfect life, died on a cross (in so many ways fulfilling OT laws), allowing us to be sanctified (cleaned) and have full fellowship with God.

You will never experience Grace or mercy from God intill you accept how much we all have fallen from his standards. From that understanding Christ can come show God's mercy to you and that Mercy and Grace will change your life forever.

It all starts with realizing your standing with God.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:28 AM   #53
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It's the easiest religion to follow because it requires one step. Any other reason would fall under "I can't really tell you because you think the bible is hokum".

If you say that the Bible is a reason to believe, couldn't the same be said for any other religion and it's holy book?

The reason to believe is because you are sinful man. Welcome to the club, we are all sinners. We have absoulty no way to get rid of all our sin so we deserve death. Christ lived a perfect life, died on a cross (in so many ways fulfilling OT laws), allowing us to be sanctified (cleaned) and have full fellowship with God.

You will never experience Grace or mercy from God intill you accept how much we all have fallen from his standards. From that understanding Christ can come show God's mercy to you and that Mercy and Grace will change your life forever.

It all starts with realizing your standing with God.
These are premises within the religion that may make sense to you since you already believe it, but it doesn't really do much for someone like me. I guess I wasn't clear, when I asked for reasons to believe, I meant reasons that lead you to believe that Christianity is true. This is because for me, the reason to believe something is the preponderance of evidence showing you that it's believable. What is the evidence that lead you to believe? That would be a reason to believe.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #54
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I think he's right about that. Christianity is the only one I know of that promises heaven for just believing and having faith. All other that I know of expect you to do things to earn your place.
Sounds like the democrat of religions.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:23 AM   #55
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These are premises within the religion that may make sense to you since you already believe it, but it doesn't really do much for someone like me. I guess I wasn't clear, when I asked for reasons to believe, I meant reasons that lead you to believe that Christianity is true. This is because for me, the reason to believe something is the preponderance of evidence showing you that it's believable. What is the evidence that lead you to believe? That would be a reason to believe.
This goes back to the conversation GM and me were having. The Evidence is anecdotal. I can't show it to you and have you accept it because it may not 'do it' for you. I'm a logical person who has had an experience that shifts my Logical thinking to incorporate God.

My logical thinking is formed from my up bringing and environment though. I'll be the first to admit that I believe in God because my parents raised me in a Church environment. However, I choose to have the faith I have because of the things I've experienced.

Because I have a different logical perspective (I call it a world view) I see things differently then you do. Where you see coincidence, I see purpose. Where you see pain and suffering, I may see a great potential for growth in God. Any evidence I may give you will probably not convince you because of the shift in perspective.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:07 PM   #56
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The Evidence is anecdotal. I can't show it to you and have you accept it because it may not 'do it' for you.
So, in order to believe in Christianity, there is no actual hard evidence for "all", but some kind of experience needs to happen for each person which is anecdotal and can't be expected to be used as evidence for anybody else?

I can dig that.

Still waiting on my personal experience. Hopefully it will be specific, so there's no confusion on which religion it is representing.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:33 PM   #57
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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:13 PM   #58
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So, in order to believe in Christianity, there is no actual hard evidence for "all", but some kind of experience needs to happen for each person which is anecdotal and can't be expected to be used as evidence for anybody else?

I can dig that.

Still waiting on my personal experience. Hopefully it will be specific, so there's no confusion on which religion it is representing.
Glad you finally "dig that" but many of us do not have a religion but a quest for following God.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #59
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Oh heck yeah, there are tons of very dark parts of the bible. Never said there wasn't but they all point a need for a savoir. Most of Christ's Lineage was messed up people who cheated, lied, and did all sorts of 'ungodly' things. His earthly Dad almost quietly disowned his mother before he was born. Mosses was a drunk. The list goes on. None of that devalues the Gospel. If anything it explodes the gospel because it shows how God used the least 'Godly' people to bring his plan to completion through Christ.

Then there is the whole "Why did God kill so many people argument". Most of the time we try to look at history (in a general sense, not just biblical events) through 21st century eyes. You killed people to survive and God showed favor to his beloved people so that his plan for the whole planet would come to completion. He also used those times to discipline his children when to show them, and us today, that the best direction is following after the creator of the universe.

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How does it not devalue the Gospel? How can as a Christian, say the bible is holy and the word of god, yet not grasp how only certain verses are snipped to fit an agenda. It's the holy bible, but only these parts, and the rest of it, well we just don't talk about the rest of it. How can a holy book, that you are supposed to live your life by, contradict itself so much?

What I'm getting at here, is that it's pretty evident that the Christain church, especially the Catholic church, is pretty damn crooked and they have their own agenda. They are pretty much their own government, so they are going to edit and paraphrase the bible to fit that agenda. If you say that isn't true, pick up a history book.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 10:20 PM   #60
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How does it not devalue the Gospel? How can as a Christian, say the bible is holy and the word of god, yet not grasp how only certain verses are snipped to fit an agenda. It's the holy bible, but only these parts, and the rest of it, well we just don't talk about the rest of it. How can a holy book, that you are supposed to live your life by, contradict itself so much?

What I'm getting at here, is that it's pretty evident that the Christain church, especially the Catholic church, is pretty damn crooked and they have their own agenda. They are pretty much their own government, so they are going to edit and paraphrase the bible to fit that agenda. If you say that isn't true, pick up a history book.
I'm telling you that there are thousands of pastors who don't pick and choose and can show you the connection through out the Bible.

A far as history goes. It's history. It further proves that when man trys to bend Gods word to his will it never reflects the true nature of hischaracter.

Give me some examples of these contradictions without going to your favorite biblical contradiction website. You claim to know the Bible so well. Prove it. Anybody can search on Google "bible contradictions" but, as you've claimed many times, you've read the bible and found those contradictions by your self. I want those. I dont' want some link to a website.

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