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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:05 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Any police officer with a gun can decide you're enough of a threat to take out.

And I'm pretty sure a drone could be equipped with something non-lethal.

i like my chances face to face with a local pd officer(or even fbi).
i can surrender, i can look him in the eye.
i can try to reason with a pd officer. i cant talk sense into a drone.
its a little too easy to push the "fire button" from 1000 miles away.

a "less than lethal" drone strike is probably an option.
never heard of one used that way though.
i hate the ideas of drones used on citizens.
i could live with them used in a non-lethal strike.

a drone wont give me "due process".
as an american citizen it is the most important right we have!
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:10 AM   #22
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Why would Aber or any of his family be worried about dying? Don't they want to go to Heaven? Maybe attack drones are just God's way of saying "Come on up ma bitches!".
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_jeep View Post
i like my chances face to face with a local pd officer(or even fbi).
i can surrender, i can look him in the eye.
i can try to reason with a pd officer. i cant talk sense into a drone.
its a little too easy to push the "fire button" from 1000 miles away.

a "less than lethal" drone strike is probably an option.
never heard of one used that way though.
i hate the ideas of drones used on citizens.
i could live with them used in a non-lethal strike.

a drone wont give me "due process".
as an american citizen it is the most important right we have!
The way the question is asked makes for a black and white answer leading you to believe they would just shoot you.

I repeat, there was a shoot down order for flight #91 on 911 and it had innocent people on board. Would you rather that it be allowed to crash into the White House?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:22 AM   #24
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tin foil stock is soaring
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:03 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
No, because the drones people are talking about are not the ones from the science fiction spy movies roving the sky automatically and autonomously with the ability to "see something going down from 5000 feet" and launch a missile on it's own. The drones of reality are not much more that large remote controlled (as in controlled by a human remotely) aircraft with cameras and weapons. The decision to take action and fire will still be made by a human, presumably someone in law enforcement. So while it's a bigger gun with a longer reach, it is still a lawman with a gun.

So again, if the police see someone that they reasonably believe is about to commit murder, and could stop it by shooting, should they? Or should they wait until the murder has been committed and just arrest them? Is this any different?
I do understand that these drones are manned by a person remotely. What I don't understand is what kind of situation would arise that this type of weapon could be used against American citizens.
From the way I understand it is we are protected by the constitution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Why would Aber or any of his family be worried about dying? Don't they want to go to Heaven? Maybe attack drones are just God's way of saying "Come on up ma bitches!".
Not worried about dying it is the fact that what they are suggestin is that if the need arises this is how they intend too take care of he problem.

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Originally Posted by gmotox View Post
So in your Christian views, it is o.k. to kill people for crossing the border?
But you are worried about the expense?
Oh wait, you will just be forgiven
Just a bit of sarcasim
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
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What I don't understand is what kind of situation would arise that this type of weapon could be used against American citizens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
The way the question is asked makes for a black and white answer leading you to believe they would just shoot you.

I repeat, there was a shoot down order for flight #91 on 911 and it had innocent people on board. Would you rather that it be allowed to crash into the White House?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #27
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I don't think that this is the type of targeting they were refering to. This kind of situation could come up again but my thinking is ground targets.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:36 AM   #28
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Ummmm, I don't think so.

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/use...inst-americans
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
The way the question is asked makes for a black and white answer leading you to believe they would just shoot you.

I repeat, there was a shoot down order for flight #91 on 911 and it had innocent people on board. Would you rather that it be allowed to crash into the White House?
we know there was a shoot down order of flight 91. in that scenario its probably the best option. you shoot down 400 passengers to save thousands on the ground. i dont think an american plane can be used as a weapon anymore. every live passenger will attack the hijackers. they know they will die, and they know the intentions of the hijackers.

even if flight 91 was shot down. those passengers were not the targets. they were more like collateral damage, unintended casualties.

i think a plane that is hijacked by non-american terrorists is very different than an american (or even small group) on american soil.

we have the right to due process. we should have our day in court.
we should be able to see the evidence against us. we should be able to confront our accusers.
thats what makes america so great.

without this all is lost! it is the single most important right we have!

terrorists from saudi arabia have no right to due process in this country in my opinion. some people dont share my opinion.

Last edited by joe_jeep; March 7th, 2013 at 09:49 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 12:00 PM   #30
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a piece taken from pbs online.

In the first known case of friendly fire deaths involving an unmanned aircraft, Marine Staff Sgt. Jeremy Smith, 26, and Navy Hospitalman Benjamin D. Rast, 23, were killed on April 6 by a Predator drone in Afghanistan’s Helmand province, after Marine commanders mistook them for Taliban.

According to The Los Angeles Times, the unreleased Pentagon report found that Marine officers on the scene and the Air Force crew piloting the drone from halfway around the world were unaware that analysts watching the live video feed from a third location in Terre Haute, Ind. had doubts about the identity of the targets.

Using a written chat system to communicate with the pilots, the analysts initially wrote that the two figures in question were “friendlies,” suggesting they were American troops. But a few seconds later, they changed their assessment, writing they were “unable to discern” who the figures were.

The report faults poor communications, mistaken assumptions and “a lack of overall common situational awareness,” but found that no one involved was “culpably negligent or derelict in their duties.”

The Times notes that the incident is similar to another Predator attack in 2009, in which at least 15 Afghan civilians were mistakenly targeted as Taliban. And in a lengthy investigation, the paper also traced how a series of errors in communicating and interpreting surveillance information led to a Predator attack on a convoy of Afghan civilians in February 2010.

its a sad story! mistakes happen! keep the drones overseas!
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Old March 7th, 2013, 01:49 PM   #31
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The problem I have with almost anything the government(both sides collectively) does these days is there is always some sort of smoke and mirrors, some sort of ulterior motive, some measure of feet being taken when an inch is given. Every god damn thing they do is so wordy and filled with so many loop holes and back doors that it basically gives whoever is in charge the power to do whatever the fukc they want, when they want.

The bigger problem is that too many people seem to have this 1950's view of how our country operates. Hell, it may not have been any better back then either, but at least it doesn't seem like there were so many blatant lies and cover ups.

The course we have been on for the past decade or so has shown me that any bit of indiscretion or power given to the administration of this country is a bad bad fucking idea and will ultimately have some sort of harsh consequences.

As far as the drone thing goes. Why in the fukc are we even considering that shit here? It has been shown time and time again over in durka durka land that we can't "strategically" take out a single target without blowing up damn near half a village and a few dozen civilians in the process.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 11:08 AM   #32
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Remember Reagan and the SDI?

Everyone was 'Star Wars' this and 'Star wars' that and the technology didn't even exist.

Same thing happening now, except that the technology sort of exists, just not perfected.

Remember, there's a reason a nuclear launch requires two keys.
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