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Old March 7th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #61
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Christianity was created by the monarchs to control the populaton using fear of hell, its as fake as the harry potter books. Religion did however build a stronger society and with the weakening of religon we can all see the eroding of civiliy. That being said I dont believe, because I can live morally without religion, but wish more people would believe so they would live a more productive lifes.

P.S. Religion is a great tool used to beat addictions, because it can also become and addiction to a weak mind.

So you are saying that Christians are weak?


And I though I made stupid posts.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #62
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Need to read the old testament again man. Mainly the parts about God testing someone by attempting to kill his own child, wipe out cities, etc.

Here, here are quite a few excerpts for you to get caught up on.

http://www.creationtheory.org/BibleS...Violence.xhtml
Abraham was tested by God and God provided a sacrificial lamb (mirroring his son's sacrifice). Sounds like he had a plan and was just testing one of his faithful servants. Whom became the father of many nations and, through his lineage was born the savior of the world.

Wiping out cities was something that happened all the time in the OT. It was the culture. Either you warred with other cities or you were taken out. It just so happens that God provided victory to his beloved children in some cases. Other cases he let the Israelites get taken down because they would not turn to him. In either case God used those situations to bring his children closer to him or to bring them back to him.

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nstead, it describes a God of violence and cruelty, whose "love" for his subjects is entirely conditional and whose rules are so strict, so harsh, and so cruel that to describe them as love is to sully the very idea of love beyond recognition.
I didn't read any of the references because I'm at work on lunch. I picked up on that paragraph and can see, already, that the author has no clue into the complete, big picture, story of the bible. Just as he claims Fundamentalists pick and choose, so does he.

I accept that God may appear different from OT to NT. I still say that it's the perception of the reader and thier understanding of the biblical story as a whole. I don't have a masters in biblical theology but I have a dear mentor who is. He's studied the bible for 50+ years and litterally is a doctor in biblical studies. He knows what he's talking about and his message is, almost always, that the OT 'harsh' law is God proving to us that we cannot get back to him by our selves and we need Christ's sacrifice to become in right standing (or righteous) in his sight.

I probably won't read through the verses because All You'll tell me is that I'm drinking the cool aid and what I'm saying is based solely in fiction. That and I don't have time to read cherry picked verses from a person who doesn't understand, or won't accept, the big picture of the bible.

I will say one thing. There is a distinct event that happens to start the NT. Jesus being born. Through him the OT laws are satisfied and God may seem more compassionate but only because those that wrote the NT were so blown away by the grace and mercy poured out from the 'selfish' God that they sacrificed thier lives to spread the story.

Edit: Oh, I just read through a part he had in Chronicles where he condems animal Sacrifice. This just proves to me even more that he is probably putting our cultures values and norms on to a culture almost 4,000 years old. You can't do that. Any historian will tell you that.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 12:19 PM   #63
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After being raised Methodist, I became a critical thinker in my late teens. I observed how people cherry pick from their book of sacred law (notice I did not say bible) or use religion as a means of manipulating others. Also, I noticed many contradictions and flat out wrong "facts" from the Bible that can not be explained away. Almost all of the meanest, critical, and narcissistic people I know are religious, the majority being Christians.

With all this information/examples I've witnessed, I decided to become a Diest. On paper I should be an atheist but I can't get myself to fully believe in their thought process. The nice thing about being a Diest is that we don't give a crap about recruiting people to our line of thinking. Also, we tend to coexist with other religions as long as they don't push their views uppon us.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 03:57 PM   #64
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Abraham was tested by God and God provided a sacrificial lamb (mirroring his son's sacrifice). Sounds like he had a plan and was just testing one of his faithful servants. Whom became the father of many nations and, through his lineage was born the savior of the world.

Wiping out cities was something that happened all the time in the OT. It was the culture. Either you warred with other cities or you were taken out. It just so happens that God provided victory to his beloved children in some cases. Other cases he let the Israelites get taken down because they would not turn to him. In either case God used those situations to bring his children closer to him or to bring them back to him.



I didn't read any of the references because I'm at work on lunch. I picked up on that paragraph and can see, already, that the author has no clue into the complete, big picture, story of the bible. Just as he claims Fundamentalists pick and choose, so does he.

I accept that God may appear different from OT to NT. I still say that it's the perception of the reader and thier understanding of the biblical story as a whole. I don't have a masters in biblical theology but I have a dear mentor who is. He's studied the bible for 50+ years and litterally is a doctor in biblical studies. He knows what he's talking about and his message is, almost always, that the OT 'harsh' law is God proving to us that we cannot get back to him by our selves and we need Christ's sacrifice to become in right standing (or righteous) in his sight.

I probably won't read through the verses because All You'll tell me is that I'm drinking the cool aid and what I'm saying is based solely in fiction. That and I don't have time to read cherry picked verses from a person who doesn't understand, or won't accept, the big picture of the bible.

I will say one thing. There is a distinct event that happens to start the NT. Jesus being born. Through him the OT laws are satisfied and God may seem more compassionate but only because those that wrote the NT were so blown away by the grace and mercy poured out from the 'selfish' God that they sacrificed thier lives to spread the story.

Edit: Oh, I just read through a part he had in Chronicles where he condems animal Sacrifice. This just proves to me even more that he is probably putting our cultures values and norms on to a culture almost 4,000 years old. You can't do that. Any historian will tell you that.
As SS puts it.....swing and a miss.

You're missing the point.....if god is god, how can he be depicted so differently? Doesn't that mean that this crazy idea that god is a man-made idea might be true?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 04:17 PM   #65
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As SS puts it.....swing and a miss.

You're missing the point.....if god is god, how can he be depicted so differently? Doesn't that mean that this crazy idea that god is a man-made idea might be true?


To make the argument that God must be made up because different people describe him differently is kind of futile. Different people react to things differently. You can go to a baseball game and think it's great while your friend next to you thinks it's the worst game he's gone to. That doesn't disprove the game, that just shows that we all experience things differently.

Much like a baseball game it helps to know the big picture and why the different players act the way they do. People who Cherry pick, both believers and not, are the people who are not getting everything they can get out of the game. I'm not saying I have a perfect understanding of the bible, but when I read it with the understanding of the whole picture, It makes complete sense. That picture is God blessing his children, disciplining (like any good parent) them, and ultimately pointing to the event that will bring them back to him.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #66
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With all this information/examples I've witnessed, I decided to become a Diest. On paper I should be an atheist but I can't get myself to fully believe in their thought process. The nice thing about being a Diest is that we don't give a crap about recruiting people to our line of thinking. Also, we tend to coexist with other religions as long as they don't push their views uppon us.
There is no "atheist thought process". Nuggets, do you actively believe in any gods (not think there "could or might be")? If no, you lack a belief in god(s), therefore you would be an atheist, just like everyone was before they were indoctrinated into their particular flavor or religion.

That lack of belief in a god or gods, is the ONLY thing that links atheists as a "group". It is the only characteristic that you can say about an atheist. There are liberal atheists, conservative atheists, atheists that are anti-religion, atheists that are apathetic towards religion, etc.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #67
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There is no "atheist thought process". Nuggets, do you actively believe in any gods (not think there "could or might be")? If no, you lack a belief in god(s), therefore you would be an atheist, just like everyone was before they were indoctrinated into their particular flavor or religion.

That lack of belief in a god or gods, is the ONLY thing that links atheists as a "group". It is the only characteristic that you can say about an atheist. There are liberal atheists, conservative atheists, atheists that are anti-religion, atheists that are apathetic towards religion, etc.
I personally don't like to say I'm an atheist, because then it looks like I'm one of those assholes demanding the Pledge of Allegiance be removed from schools and In God We Trust to be removed from our money. I'm not a big fan of religion, but it has it's pros and cons. I don't care what religion other people are, and what their beliefs are even though my opinion might be they are odd.

The better definition is an apatheist, which is what I call myself.

Apatheism (/ˌępəˈθiːɪzəm/ a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism), also known as pragmatic atheism or (critically) as practical atheism, is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity. Apatheism describes the manner of acting towards a belief or lack of a belief in a deity, so it applies to both theism and atheism. An apatheist is also someone who is not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. In other words, an apatheist is someone who considers the question of the existence of gods as neither meaningful nor relevant to his or her life.
Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) acknowledges that any amount of debate can neither prove, nor disprove, the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest.
Apatheists hold that if it were possible to prove that God exists, their behavior would not change. Similarly, there would be no change if someone proved that God does not exist.[1]
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:18 PM   #68
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I personally don't like to say I'm an atheist, because then it looks like I'm one of those assholes demanding the Pledge of Allegiance be removed from schools and In God We Trust to be removed from our money. I'm not a big fan of religion, but it has it's pros and cons. I don't care what religion other people are, and what their beliefs are even though my opinion might be they are odd.

The better definition is an apatheist, which is what I call myself.

Apatheism (/ˌępəˈθiːɪzəm/ a portmanteau of apathy and theism/atheism), also known as pragmatic atheism or (critically) as practical atheism, is acting with apathy, disregard, or lack of interest towards belief or disbelief in a deity. Apatheism describes the manner of acting towards a belief or lack of a belief in a deity, so it applies to both theism and atheism. An apatheist is also someone who is not interested in accepting or denying any claims that gods exist or do not exist. In other words, an apatheist is someone who considers the question of the existence of gods as neither meaningful nor relevant to his or her life.
Apathetic agnosticism (also called pragmatic agnosticism) acknowledges that any amount of debate can neither prove, nor disprove, the existence of one or more deities, and if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Therefore, their existence has little to no impact on personal human affairs and should be of little theological interest.
Apatheists hold that if it were possible to prove that God exists, their behavior would not change. Similarly, there would be no change if someone proved that God does not exist.[1]
Do you agree with the idea of separation of church and state?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #69
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Do you agree with the idea of separation of church and state?
Yes, but not to the extreme that atheists think it should be.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #70
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There is no "atheist thought process". Nuggets, do you actively believe in any gods (not think there "could or might be")? If no, you lack a belief in god(s), therefore you would be an atheist, just like everyone was before they were indoctrinated into their particular flavor or religion.

That lack of belief in a god or gods, is the ONLY thing that links atheists as a "group". It is the only characteristic that you can say about an atheist. There are liberal atheists, conservative atheists, atheists that are anti-religion, atheists that are apathetic towards religion, etc.
I don't necessarily think other Atheists want you speaking for them. They may have different viewpoints on what a true atheist is compared to a 'wanna be'. You should be careful.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #71
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To make the argument that God must be made up because different people describe him differently is kind of futile. Different people react to things differently. You can go to a baseball game and think it's great while your friend next to you thinks it's the worst game he's gone to. That doesn't disprove the game, that just shows that we all experience things differently.

Much like a baseball game it helps to know the big picture and why the different players act the way they do. People who Cherry pick, both believers and not, are the people who are not getting everything they can get out of the game. I'm not saying I have a perfect understanding of the bible, but when I read it with the understanding of the whole picture, It makes complete sense. That picture is God blessing his children, disciplining (like any good parent) them, and ultimately pointing to the event that will bring them back to him.
I'm pretty sure both friends will agree that the baseball game actually exists.

I don't think good parents kill their children if they misbehave.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #72
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Yes, but not to the extreme that atheists think it should be.
I just got through explaining that there are all different kinds of atheists and the only thing they all have in common is a lack of a belief in god(s)....

You are an atheist and you dont give a crap about in god we trust on coins. There, that proves all atheists aren't trying to fight to have it removed. However, the reason I asked, was because I have a feeling that you're less apathetic towards religion than you think/say you are.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:02 PM   #73
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I don't necessarily think other Atheists want you speaking for them. They may have different viewpoints on what a true atheist is compared to a 'wanna be'. You should be careful.
Careful?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #74
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I'm a dyslexic agnostic insomniac.





I lay awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 09:48 PM   #75
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Yes, but not to the extreme that atheists think it should be.
I'm an atheist and I don't give a shit about the separate of church and state. When I go to the girlfriends family's house for supper they pray before they eat. I think about beer and boobies. As long as you don't lecture me about my faith I don't care what you want to do.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:00 PM   #76
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As long as you don't lecture me about my faith I don't care what you want to do.
Oh really? Ok, I'm in a position of power and I feel that I need to legislate my religious beliefs. Still apathetic?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 10:19 PM   #77
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Oh really? Ok, I'm in a position of power and I feel that I need to legislate my religious beliefs. Still apathetic?
I don't believe in legislating morality, regardless if it's religious based or not.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #78
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So you are saying that Christians are weak?


And I though I made stupid posts.
Not weak just weak minded, and not all of them really just the people that need religion to be a moral person. For example the people that "find religion" while in prison or while beating an addiction, for them religion is a good thing because they cant be a decient person without it. Just an observation.
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Old March 8th, 2013, 05:34 AM   #79
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Oh really? Ok, I'm in a position of power and I feel that I need to legislate my religious beliefs. Still apathetic?
It's not ok to Legislate religious beliefs but I do think it's ok to run your personal business by them. What would atheists say to that?
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Old March 8th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #80
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It's not ok to Legislate religious beliefs but I do think it's ok to run your personal business by them. What would atheists say to that?
Again, I couldn't tell you "what atheists would say to that" since I DON'T speak for all atheists on the subject of almost anything. The one thing I CAN say on behalf of ALL atheists, is that we lack a belief in gods. That's it.

Now, what would I say to that? Hmm, how about, "have at it, hoss, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else."
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