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Old March 6th, 2013, 05:41 PM   #1
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Default Bicycle Tax: Cycling is bad for the environment

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/...ronment_276724

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In an e-mail to a Tacoma, Wash. bike shop owner about a proposed bicycle tax, State Rep. Ed Orcutt came to the conclusion that cycling is bad for the environment because people exhale an increased amount of carbon dioxide when they’re pedaling on a bike.

“Also, you claim that it is environmentally friendly to ride a bike,” Orcutt wrote. “But if I am not mistaken, a cyclists has an increased heart rate and respiration. That means that the act of riding a bike results in greater emissions of carbon dioxide from the rider. Since CO2 is deemed to be a greenhouse gas and a pollutant, bicyclists are actually polluting when they ride.”
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:24 AM   #2
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cyclists fart, too.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #3
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better tax anyone who walks, talks, goes to the gym, runs, or otherwise.

We're really trying to tax such petty things as this in this country now?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:54 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
better tax anyone who walks, talks, goes to the gym, runs, or otherwise.

We're really trying to tax such petty things as this in this country now?
Isn't that basically what Obamacare does?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 06:57 AM   #5
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better tax anyone who walks, talks, goes to the gym, runs, or otherwise.

We're really trying to tax such petty things as this in this country now?

Actually, with the amount of money this state is putting into the bicycle trails, they should be taxed. That money is coming right out of the roads money or the SRF fund. Compared to snowmobiles, quads, off-roaders and the like, who have to permit to run a less extensive trail system. The bicyclist, roller bladers, runners, seem to get a free pass.

If the money to sustain/ build comes out of the transportation funding, then they should pay for the reward.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:01 AM   #6
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Golly, they can't figure out that a person riding a bike somewhere expels less greenhouse gases than a motorized vehicle? The logic of some (most) polaticians escapes me.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:01 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Actually, with the amount of money this state is putting into the bicycle trails, they should be taxed. That money is coming right out of the roads money or the SRF fund. Compared to snowmobiles, quads, off-roaders and the like, who have to permit to run a less extensive trail system. The bicyclist, roller bladers, runners, seem to get a free pass.

If the money to sustain/ build comes out of the transportation funding, then they should pay for the reward.
lol

You really think that snowmobilers have a less extensive trail system than bikes and rollerbladers? haha, you're smarter than that. Tell me, how many miles of bike path do you think exists in Michigan?

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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Actually, with the amount of money this state is putting into the bicycle trails, they should be taxed. That money is coming right out of the roads money or the SRF fund. Compared to snowmobiles, quads, off-roaders and the like, who have to permit to run a less extensive trail system. The bicyclist, roller bladers, runners, seem to get a free pass.

If the money to sustain/ build comes out of the transportation funding, then they should pay for the reward.
The reward is less cars on the road.
Every cyclist is one less car, it adds up.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #9
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The reward is less cars on the road.
Every cyclist is one less car, it adds up.

There are some that use these trails for commuting, but most in West Michigan are being used for recreation, or worse,............they were built so a politician can look green.

Hiding behind global warning, does not give a free pass in my book.
No more free rides, that's what screwed up this country in the first place.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:12 AM   #10
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There are some that use these trails for commuting, but most in West Michigan are being used for recreation, or worse,............they were built so a politician can look green.

Hiding behind global warning, does not give a free pass in my book.
No more free rides, that's what screwed up this country in the first place.
LOL again.....you realize most of these paths are created with property tax money right? Something the citizens of specific communities have lobbied to have built with their property taxes right?

You also understand that most of the bike paths outside of that are located in parks right?

You also understand that nearly every mountain bike trail in michigan was built by volunteers right?

You also realize your claim of more trails than the snowmobilers or ORV users have just makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about....right?
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:20 AM   #11
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LOL again.....you realize most of these paths are created with property tax money right? Something the citizens of specific communities have lobbied to have built with their property taxes right?

You also understand that most of the bike paths outside of that are located in parks right?

You also understand that nearly every mountain bike trail in michigan was built by volunteers right?

You also realize your claim of more trails than the snowmobilers or ORV users have just makes you look like you have no clue what you are talking about....right?
You also realize that I'm in Civil Engineering right,.........and that I've built several of these so called public bike trails, right?

Mountain biking is not my topic, I have no issues with pay to ride at a private park.

Snowmobile trails, although maintained, are not nearly as expensive as resurfacing a rail road grade to turn it into a bicycle trail.

One small example: The section of trail that I helped design in Muskegon (only a mile and a 1/2 long) took over $200,000 for construction fees alone.

My family also donated 40 miles of the White pine trail back in the 70's (part of Ben Ensley's estate) in which are lovely governor re-sold naming writes to Fred Meijer for a cool mil. (which the money went mostly for signage and marketing to show how Green the State and the Fred Meijer endowmant were)

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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Golly, they can't figure out that a person riding a bike somewhere expels less greenhouse gases than a motorized vehicle? The logic of some (most) polaticians escapes me.
Yet the blind masses keep electing these incompetent asshats!
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:28 AM   #13
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I realize you are a civil engineer. That's why I figured you'd be a bit more educated on the subject.

If towns, villages, cities, and the state didn't think that these bike paths or rail trails were of importance to them, they wouldn't spend the time to either gravel or pave them. These aren't political statements to be green, nobody commutes on a rail trail, it's a tourist trap. It's a way to generate recreational revenue. You want to tax beach users too?

As for city installed cycle paths for commuters these again are for weekend recreational users and weekly commuters, paid for by property taxes.

You want to tax me for owning a bike? Sure, I'll pay taxes for owning a bike, just as soon as you are taxed for your guns, four wheelers, jeeps, fishing poles, bow, hockey sticks (imagine all the emissions an ice rink puts out trying to keep the ice frozen), chainsaw, etc.

You try to force people to find a greener alternative to the car to commute, then try to force a tax on it?

Or on the flip side are you ok with taxing recreation? I pay for access to the trails I ride just the same as an ORV user or Snowmobile does. I either have to purchase a daily pass to the state parks, a yearly pass, or the same for a private park, city park, county park......
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
I realize you are a civil engineer. That's why I figured you'd be a bit more educated on the subject.

If towns, villages, cities, and the state didn't think that these bike paths or rail trails were of importance to them, they wouldn't spend the time to either gravel or pave them. These aren't political statements to be green, nobody commutes on a rail trail, it's a tourist trap. It's a way to generate recreational revenue. You want to tax beach users too?

As for city installed cycle paths for commuters these again are for weekend recreational users and weekly commuters, paid for by property taxes.

You want to tax me for owning a bike? Sure, I'll pay taxes for owning a bike, just as soon as you are taxed for your guns, four wheelers, jeeps, fishing poles, bow, hockey sticks (imagine all the emissions an ice rink puts out trying to keep the ice frozen), chainsaw, etc.

You try to force people to find a greener alternative to the car to commute, then try to force a tax on it?

Or on the flip side are you ok with taxing recreation? I pay for access to the trails I ride just the same as an ORV user or Snowmobile does. I either have to purchase a daily pass to the state parks, a yearly pass, or the same for a private park, city park, county park......

I'm not sure where you are getting your information that all these bike trails are paid for by property tax.................that is not true. Some, yes, but a major portion comes out of Transportation.

I don't want to tax you for owning a bike, only for using a publicly funded trail. Same with my bow, I pay to shoot at a range, I pay to hunt on public lands. Simple really.

Nice tactic on trying to be-little my education by the way........so served. You only get 1 dozen cookies now.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:36 AM   #15
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Do you want to tax people for walking on sidewalks too?

How much maintenance will a rail trail or publicly funded paved bike path need in comparison to a road that cars drive on?

How will you enforce those that use the rail trail are paying their tax?

How do you pay to hunt on public lands? (Serious question I don't hunt) I always thought you bought a hunting license whether you were on public or private land, do you have to pay additional money to hunt on public land?

Last edited by kickstand; March 7th, 2013 at 07:39 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 07:41 AM   #16
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What trails were built out of the transportation fund? Do you want to tax people for walking on sidewalks too?

How much maintenance will a rail trail or publicly funded paved bike path need in comparison to a road that cars drive on?

How will you enforce those that use the rail trail are paying their tax?

How do you pay to hunt on public lands? (Serious question I don't hunt) I always thought you bought a hunting license whether you were on public or private land, do you have to pay additional money to hunt on public land?
A lot of cities make the land owners pay for part of the sidewalk build/repair.

I don't have a clue on how to inforce it, I'm just playing Kickstand today. (I'm not very good at it, I might add)

The hunting license is the tax. However, it also transfers as a tax to private land which I wont get into.

Parts of the Muskatawa, White Pine, Hart connection, Lakeshore connector,.........those are just a few off the top of my head. Think about the fact that a lot of these connectors go through street interchanges, which require road modifications, including traffic signal and signage. That's where a lot of the extra cost is.

See you tomorrow buddy.

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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:07 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
I realize you are a civil engineer. That's why I figured you'd be a bit more educated on the subject.

If towns, villages, cities, and the state didn't think that these bike paths or rail trails were of importance to them, they wouldn't spend the time to either gravel or pave them. These aren't political statements to be green, nobody commutes on a rail trail, it's a tourist trap. It's a way to generate recreational revenue. You want to tax beach users too?

As for city installed cycle paths for commuters these again are for weekend recreational users and weekly commuters, paid for by property taxes.

You want to tax me for owning a bike? Sure, I'll pay taxes for owning a bike, just as soon as you are taxed for your guns, four wheelers, jeeps, fishing poles, bow, hockey sticks (imagine all the emissions an ice rink puts out trying to keep the ice frozen), chainsaw, etc.

You try to force people to find a greener alternative to the car to commute, then try to force a tax on it?

Or on the flip side are you ok with taxing recreation? I pay for access to the trails I ride just the same as an ORV user or Snowmobile does. I either have to purchase a daily pass to the state parks, a yearly pass, or the same for a private park, city park, county park......
Gas tax.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:10 AM   #18
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This is a tax on BREATHING.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #19
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Gas tax.
Don't forget sales tax, vehicle registration, etc. We are pretty much taxed on anything you do one way or another. We all have to buy things to live. Nothing is free, and virtually everything is taxed.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:14 AM   #20
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A lot of cities make the land owners pay for part of the sidewalk build/repair.

I don't have a clue on how to inforce it, I'm just playing Kickstand today. (I'm not very good at it, I might add)

The hunting license is the tax. However, it also transfers as a tax to private land which I wont get into.

Parts of the Muskatawa, White Pine, Hart connection, Lakeshore connector,.........those are just a few off the top of my head. Think about the fact that a lot of these connectors go through street interchanges, which require road modifications, including traffic signal and signage. That's where a lot of the extra cost is.

See you tomorrow buddy.
So I just did a little reading. You're correct in that some of the funding comes from MDOT, it also comes from Federal Grants, and Property taxes. A ton of it also came from Fred Meijer. (At least for some of the trail trails you are talking about).

So if I am taxed when I buy my gas, and taxed for owning my house, and taxed for whwatever fund the feds gave the money from, why in the world should i pay more tax?

So you don't pay to hunt on public lands, you just pay for the license required to harvest game in the state of michigan. Doesn't matter if you hunt on public or private land....much like a fishing license....

I am against most taxes, I feel between our income, sales tax, property tax, gas tax, etc. we are already taxed pretty highly. So I am not against this because I like to ride my bike, I am against it because it's basis is weak.

I buy a trail permit similar to an ORV or a snowmobiler. (State Park Passport as that is where most MTB Trails are).

Are you going to start taxing 5 year old kids for having bikes too?

*We're getting away from this politicians ridiculous argument though, he wants to tax the bicyclists emissions (Breathing). If that's the case we also need to tax the people who run on a treadmill that uses extra electricity AND causes more breathing, walkers, runners, mouth breathers, fat folks (remember they probably expel a lot more Co2 than the average person due to their hearts working so much harder), football players, high schoolers involved in athletics, rec league basketball players, rec league volleyball players, hockey players (imagine all the greenhouse gases used to keep those ice rinks frozen in the summer), cross country skiers, swimmers, etc.*
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