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Old March 4th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #1
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Default Morals Without Religion?

All of these religious posts got me thinking. The Religious Right seem to claim that a Godless country will be the end of the world as we know it. That you can't have a family unit, morals, a sense of right and wrong, etc. without religion and God.

I disagree. I personally believe that the "golden rule" is simple humanity. We don't like to be treated poorly, so it makes sense to treats others as you would want to be treated (unless you're some sick sadomasochist fukc ).

I have an extreme sense of right and wrong, damn near Old Testament type stuff. Maybe it's because I was taught religion growing up, however my parents didn't use it as an excuse to teach us how or why we act a certain way.

So, do we have morals in society as a direct result of religion that wouldn't be there otherwise? Or is it quite possible that the rules of humanity would exist anyway?
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Old March 4th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #2
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I do not believe a simple government can legislate morality, as that which is acceptable is dictated by the people.
Right now our morality is degrading along with our religion.

The homos will soon have gay mariage widely accepted.

Next the society will work towards legalization of sex acts with children and animals.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #3
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It is more common sense and decency than religion, I know a few awesomely moral atheists.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:20 PM   #4
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Yes, I believe you can have morals without religion.

Mainstream religions are essentially collections of social norms plugged into a framework of suggested supernatural powers. As we evolved from solitary bands of roving hunter/gatherers to a more settled agrarian society, we needed rules to prevent chaos. The latter half of the 10 Commandments are an excellent set of rules that would allow people to love together in harmony. Respect your parents, don't murder, doink your neighbor's spouse, steal, lie, or obsess over what someone else has.

What better way to lend weight to these ideas than to add an element of supernatural risk - failure to comply will lead to a post-mortem eternity of suffering. Organized religion is just the vestigial part of the storytelling that passed from generation to generation.

So, yes you can be moral and spiritual without organized religion.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #5
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The Catholic church has proven you can have religion without morals, so morals without religion should be easy.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #6
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Look up Matt Dillahunty. He gives a great talk on the superiority of secular morality. It's pretty good.

actually, here you go:

http://blip.tv/the-atheist-experienc...rality-4192742
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Old March 4th, 2013, 10:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
I do not believe a simple government can legislate morality, as that which is acceptable is dictated by the people.
Right now our morality is degrading along with our religion.

The homos will soon have gay mariage widely accepted.

Next the society will work towards legalization of sex acts with children and animals.

Are we still playing the dougstephvoor is a fucking retard scavenger hunt game, or is that only when SS is drunk?
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Old March 4th, 2013, 10:38 PM   #8
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Are we still playing the dougstephvoor is a fucking retard scavenger hunt game, or is that only when SS is drunk?
The game has transitioned into finding dougstephvoor's Greatest Hits for compilation later.

Whoever finds his most retarded posts complete with a link for reference and compiles them into a thread will win a brand new PMag loaded with 30 rounds of 5.56 JHP.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #9
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I agree that you can morals. And it scares me that some religious people seem to be saying that the only thing that keeps them moral is the threat of god punishment.
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Old March 4th, 2013, 11:19 PM   #10
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Holy scheit you ate your wheaties today. I understood 5 whole words here professor. You're kinda smart fellar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Yes, I believe you can have morals without religion.

Mainstream religions are essentially collections of social norms plugged into a framework of suggested supernatural powers. As we evolved from solitary bands of roving hunter/gatherers to a more settled agrarian society, we needed rules to prevent chaos. The latter half of the 10 Commandments are an excellent set of rules that would allow people to love together in harmony. Respect your parents, don't murder, doink your neighbor's spouse, steal, lie, or obsess over what someone else has.

What better way to lend weight to these ideas than to add an element of supernatural risk - failure to comply will lead to a post-mortem eternity of suffering. Organized religion is just the vestigial part of the storytelling that passed from generation to generation.

So, yes you can be moral and spiritual without organized religion.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:40 AM   #11
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Can we have good morals without religion? Quite possible. However, I see a decline in both religion and morals in our society. Coincidence? I don't think so.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 05:41 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
The Catholic church has proven you can have religion without morals, so morals without religion should be easy.
awesomely true
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Old March 5th, 2013, 07:44 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Can we have good morals without religion? Quite possible. However, I see a decline in both religion and morals in our society. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Have morals declined with the lack of religion or has religion declined with the lack of morals?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 08:08 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
Have morals declined with the lack of religion or has religion declined with the lack of morals?
Yes.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 09:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadcooper55 View Post
Have morals declined with the lack of religion or has religion declined with the lack of morals?


Also global warming has increased as the number of pirates in the world have declined...coincidence?


Last edited by mikesova; March 5th, 2013 at 09:49 AM. Reason: edited to add graph
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Old March 5th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Also global warming has increased as the number of pirates in the world have declined...coincidence?

But what about since 2000? We had a spike in the number of pirates, did global temps drop then?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 01:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
But what about since 2000? We had a spike in the number of pirates, did global temps drop then?
Data has been corrupted by the number of methane inducing religion threads on GL4x4.
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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Can we have good morals without religion? Quite possible. However, I see a decline in both religion and morals in our society. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Do people see moral decline as they get older because they have a different view of society?

Young folks generally aren't as concerned about morals. Generally you go from school, to partying and trying to get laid, to getting a "real" job, getting married, having kids, kids grow up and start the adult cycle, and your life slows down and you have time to reflect and pontificate.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but that seems to be how it goes. Some folks party harder, some have kids sooner, but as a society, this is the general path.

In the first stages of adulthood you are generally pretty selfish, and most don't have a realistic view of the world and are generally more liberal as you are more likely naive to how things work. Most people grow more conservative as they grow older as they figure out that the social program that was nice in their 20's that they paid no money into is now taking 35% of their income and aren't happy with paying for it. Then you start thinking about retirement and savings and become even tighter.

I hear a lot of people complain about the decline of religion and morals, and it seems to start around middle age. As the age gets older, the complaint becomes louder. And it seems that the complaint has always been the same.

I remember my Grandparents saying it when I was young, and my parents say it more now than I remember as a kid. I am starting to feel that way, too; more than 5 years ago, but not as strongly as my parents.

So has this always been this way? And will it always be this way? Porn isn't new. Gay communities aren't new. Prostiution isn't new. The Bible says to not covet thy neighbors wife, so I'm guessing they didn't make up the rule just in case someone in the future thought up to sleep with another guy's wife. Maybe as a society it is easier access to this stuff, but it's always been around.

“Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains.” ― Winston Churchill
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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #19
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In other words.. is complaining about the moral decline of society to old people what being different or misunderstood is to teenagers?
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Old March 5th, 2013, 04:31 PM   #20
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JohnnyJ hit the nail on the head IMO. I listened to new music as a teenager, which is the stuff I still listen to now. I'm sure people older thought it sucked, just as I think today's new music sucks.
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