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Old February 21st, 2013, 10:33 AM   #1
Paperman
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Default Who can legally enter your property without consent?

I ask this as I am a township board member and it was brought to us again to join the county Junk ordinance. We have elected to stay out of it in the past and plan to reject it once again as we on the board do not think we need any outside agency telling our residents what is junk and what is not. To that end I ask who can enter your property without your consent? Could the designated enforcement person (non-deputized) for the junk ordinance walk your property looking for items? Do I have to let the equalization folks measure my home from the outside, as they look for additions I may have made? Can a DNR officer walk my woods and just say he is counting deer? Yes I am trying to hide shit, thatís the reason we live in BFE. I donít want just anybody to know what I own or what is hiding in the barn or what is being stored behind the garage.
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Old February 21st, 2013, 10:44 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Paperman View Post
I ask this as I am a township board member and it was brought to us again to join the county Junk ordinance. We have elected to stay out of it in the past and plan to reject it once again as we on the board do not think we need any outside agency telling our residents what is junk and what is not. To that end I ask who can enter your property without your consent? Could the designated enforcement person (non-deputized) for the junk ordinance walk your property looking for items? Do I have to let the equalization folks measure my home from the outside, as they look for additions I may have made? Can a DNR officer walk my woods and just say he is counting deer? Yes I am trying to hide shit, that’s the reason we live in BFE. I don’t want just anybody to know what I own or what is hiding in the barn or what is being stored behind the garage.
this question is best addressed to your township's corporate counsel/township attorney. there should be a policy statement consistent with that individual's legal opinion.

there is no black and white answer to your question, and it is an issue that is litigated on and off over the years.

as an example, the former State Assessors Board, which integrated into the State Tax Commission has issued several recommended procedures for Assessors and Auditors and County Tax Collection officers (which are often deputized) for how they go about their field inspection duties.

a keyword for your attorney or legal research would be case law related to "curtilage" - this will be even more litigated going forward as more and more, light/small drone use is approved and/or just performed on American soil by civilian / government.

as for your equalization/assessor - the SAB/STC's statement is loosely worded as: to walk/view/photograph/measure unless asked/demanded to leave, putting personal safety first. IF there is current litigation pending, to contact the attorney that made an appearance first for a request to do so - and if that inspection is refused to make an "estimate".

some assessors can't measure shit properly with a laser so I'm not so sure it's a good idea to have them making wild assed guesses from the road, or via a hot air balloon...



if you don't want the ordinance folks, or DNR on your property make it as difficult to gain entry to the entire site as possible. deep ravine like ditches, fences, tightly woven coniferous trees with a gated driveway have a tendency to make most government employees simply say "fuckitol"

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Old February 21st, 2013, 10:57 AM   #3
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I hate playing the games but one bust at times but as you said we can make it more difficult. We had a personal friend that owned a decent size metal working shop 60-80 employees. Not skilled labor, basicly uneducated folks making a living punching and welding steel. One person was let go and they called MIOSHA with a complaint. In real life you will never be 100% legal and safe and in the low end of the market Im sure its more so but I have been there many times and would say there were no gross dangers. Anyhow when the inspectors came the owner got on the PA and annouced a paid day off. All the workers left, then the main braker for the plant was opened. It gets dark quick with out lights. The inspectors were left for their inspection with no lights or power. Shit thing to do but funny!!!

I ask all this as I hold all the permits and licenses to manufacture explosives and fireworks from the ATF and locals. Been doing it for years. Don’t need some hilljack walking up taking measurements with a Marlboro hanging out of his mouth looking at my drying racks of product. Would be a bad day for many.

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Old February 21st, 2013, 11:06 AM   #4
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I hate playing the games but one bust at times but as you said we can make it more difficult. We had a personal friend that owned a decent size metal working shop 60-80 employees. Not skilled labor, basicly uneducated folks making a living punching and welding steel. One person was let go and they called MIOSHA with a complaint. In real life you will never be 100% legal and safe and in the low end of the market Im sure its more so but I have been there many times and would say there were no gross dangers. Anyhow when the inspectors came the owner got on the PA and annouced a paid day off. All the workers left, then the main braker for the plant was opened. It gets dark quick with out lights. The inspectors were left for their inspection with no lights or power. Shit thing to do but funny!!!

I ask all this as I hold all the permits and licenses to manufacture explosives and fireworks from the ATF and locals. Been doing it for years. Donít need some hilljack walking up taking measurements with a Marlboro hanging out of his mouth looking at my drying racks of product. Would be a bad day for many.

anytime you have the possibility of a civil or criminal court case involved then games are had by definition.

attorney and court fees add up exponentially - and the courts always tack on huge penalty/administration and interest fees as well.

so... there's a huge financial incentive to have parties on both sides play games.

e.g. I know of paving and asphalt/excavating companies that move all of their equipment to a vacant piece of land in the most remote part of BFE that has low property tax millages to establish situs for 12/31 of each year so their personal property tax bill is lower than where they are headquartered, or do most of their work. they're the #1 taxpayer in that community even though they're only there for 1 day but it saves them quite a bit of property tax expense vs. if they had been on a job site in Detroit on tax day...

and having been employed by local/regional government on and off for most of my career - I can tell you that proper signage indicating a safety hazard is quite enough to deter most governmental employees from simply poking/prodding where they don't belong

I was part of a crew that went through the old pfizer labs in Rochester hills where they made penicillian. I'm alergic to penicillian. the waivers I had to sign, and hazmat suit I was supposed to wear were enough for me to decline that part of the process, and I relied upon photographs from team members and worked on crunching the numbers for that assignment rather than physically viewing the site
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