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Old January 29th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #21
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All conversation is irrelevant, trailer is too small for two jeeps. I do understand weight distribution and tongue weight, that wasn't my question. Thanks for all the input.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:18 PM   #22
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do me a favor, next time you put two jeeps on a bumper pull trailer, pull the first one all the way to the front, then load the second, take a picture, then move the second jeep 3" forward, and then 6" backwards. Take pictures of each please. I'd like to see that the jeep being "right over the axle" has zero input on the amount of tongue weight the truck sees.

1st, it wouldn't take but a few inches of both jeeps moving to correct tongue weight.

2nd, we aren't talking about a half ton with 3 leaf springs and an overload leaf.
Not saying it couldnt work but you are still going to have a ton of tongue weight. And I was talking about a 3/4 ton truck!
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Old January 29th, 2013, 11:26 PM   #23
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You're retarded.

We used a 22 or 24' trailer to tow a shannon campbell buggy (Kaiser42's) and my yj on 36's with a bumper pull down to the badlands behind his duramax. We had no sagging issues at all.

I am certain his buggy weighed as much as a typical TJ.

My F350 had an add a leaf or two (or 4 ) and I never had sagging issues on any load.

An F250 shouldn't have major sagging issues with the stock springs.
It all depends on which rear springs or leafs you have as well as where the jeeps are positioned on the trailer. Also not saying mounting one backwards is required just saying its an idea if the 3/4 ton was sagging
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Old January 30th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
That said, I've seen many people pull doubles with just a 3/4 ton. With the bumperpull, its just all in the balance of the trailer. A WD hitch might be a good investment. I have pulled as much as 27k lbs on a bumperpull (pintle hook) with a 1 ton dually work truck, but the trailer was well balanced.
Am I reading this right? You pulled a trailer that was 10,000 lbs over the bumper tow rating of any modern Dually 1 ton truck available on the market currently.

Seems legit even for hag-fucking-gar
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Old January 30th, 2013, 12:47 PM   #25
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Am I reading this right? You pulled a trailer that was 10,000 lbs over the bumper tow rating of any modern Dually 1 ton truck available on the market currently.

Seems legit even for hag-fucking-gar
Commercial landscape truck with a pintle hook, and a modified rear suspension. But I believe it was over the weight rating on the plate. When you are 19 and the boss says drive this truck, you do. It was a tub grinder with a 6ft throat, 27k lb weight, IIRC (almost 20 years ago). The limitations you are talking about are due to the ratings of manufacturers Class V hitches. Different story entirely when you have medium duty pintle hook properly mounted on the frame.

Normally we pulled that behind one of the dump trucks, or stake trucks, all medium duty stuff.



The point was its not so much about weight as it is about proper balance and tongue weight.

With an 11k trailer, you want 1100-1500-ish lbs of tongue weight. The factory hitches for 3/4s were up to 1250lbs I believe if used with WD bars. Its all hypothetical, since he can't actually fit them on his trailer. But if you look at a 24 or 26ft deck trailer, if the center of the axles are more than about 3ft back from the center of the deck, then its damn near impossible to get the weight distribution. And there are trailers built that way for carrying things like backhoes, dozers, etc that doesn't have the same weight balance as a 50/50 Jeep.

If you took a 24ft flatbed, with two axles, and a 4ft long tongue, and put two TJs on it. If you had the axles dead center, you have the two TJs balancing themselves out, so you basically have just the empty tongue weight, probably about 300 lbs.

Move the axles back just 2 feet, and the tongue weight goes up to 1300 lbs. 3 ft back, and its up to 1800 lbs. Thats still 9 ft of deck from the centerline of the tandems to the rear edge of the deck, doesn't seem too imbalanced, but it is.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 12:52 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Commercial landscape truck with a pintle hook, and a modified rear suspension. But I believe it was over the weight rating on the plate. When you are 19 and the boss says drive this truck, you do. It was a tub grinder with a 6ft throat, 27k lb weight, IIRC (almost 20 years ago). The limitations you are talking about are due to the ratings of manufacturers Class V hitches. Different story entirely when you have medium duty pintle hook properly mounted on the frame.

Normally we pulled that behind one of the dump trucks, or stake trucks, all medium duty stuff.



The point was its not so much about weight as it is about proper balance and tongue weight.
With an 11k trailer, you want 1100-1500-ish lbs of tongue weight. The factory hitches for 3/4s were up to 1250lbs I believe if used with WD bars. Its all hypothetical, since he can't actually fit them on his trailer. But if you look at a 24 or 26ft deck trailer, if the center of the axles are more than about 3ft back from the center of the deck, then its damn near impossible to get the weight distribution. And there are trailers built that way for carrying things like backhoes, dozers, etc that doesn't have the same weight balance as a 50/50 Jeep.

If you took a 24ft flatbed, with two axles, and a 4ft long tongue, and put two TJs on it. If you had the axles dead center, you have the two TJs balancing themselves out, so you basically have just the empty tongue weight, probably about 300 lbs.

Move the axles back just 2 feet, and the tongue weight goes up to 1300 lbs. 3 ft back, and its up to 1800 lbs. Thats still 9 ft of deck from the centerline of the tandems to the rear edge of the deck, doesn't seem too imbalanced, but it is.
Umm bullshit.

27k behind an 8k truck, hmmmmm sounds like the carts now driving the horse. The tow rig is going to need some amount of weight, equal too, or near equal to the trailer that's pushing it down the road.

Sure trailer brakes make a difference, as does proper balance....but towing 10k pounds is pretty heavy, towing 10k more than a truck is rated to tow? yeah ok.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
Umm bullshit.

27k behind an 8k truck, hmmmmm sounds like the carts now driving the horse. The tow rig is going to need some amount of weight, equal too, or near equal to the trailer that's pushing it down the road.

Sure trailer brakes make a difference, as does proper balance....but towing 10k pounds is pretty heavy, towing 10k more than a truck is rated to tow? yeah ok.
Go ride a bike.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 03:30 PM   #28
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Umm bullshit.

27k behind an 8k truck, hmmmmm sounds like the carts now driving the horse. The tow rig is going to need some amount of weight, equal too, or near equal to the trailer that's pushing it down the road.

Sure trailer brakes make a difference, as does proper balance....but towing 10k pounds is pretty heavy, towing 10k more than a truck is rated to tow? yeah ok.
Whatever makes you feel good. You think every tractor weighs as much as its trailer, sure. Those tractors pulling double trains, how do they do that?

It was slow as hell, 1st gen CTD dually, metal flatbed, 4.88 gears. But its not really much different than people pulling 20k+ 5ers and GNs with 1 tons.

The heaviest 2013 Ram CTD is rated to tow 30k lbs. How do they manage that? All the big 3 diesels can be outfitted to tow more than 20k lbs. And you know damn well that the second you go a pund over the rating, its not like the wheels fall off.

lol.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #29
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Whatever makes you feel good. You think every tractor weighs as much as its trailer, sure. Those tractors pulling double trains, how do they do that?

It was slow as hell, 1st gen CTD dually, metal flatbed, 4.88 gears. But its not really much different than people pulling 20k+ 5ers and GNs with 1 tons.

The heaviest 2013 Ram CTD is rated to tow 30k lbs. How do they manage that? All the big 3 diesels can be outfitted to tow more than 20k lbs. And you know damn well that the second you go a pund over the rating, its not like the wheels fall off.

lol.
bumper tow, 20 years ago, 27k which is 17k over what any truck of that era was rated to bumper tow.

right.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #30
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Umm bullshit.

27k behind an 8k truck, hmmmmm sounds like the carts now driving the horse. The tow rig is going to need some amount of weight, equal too, or near equal to the trailer that's pushing it down the road.

Sure trailer brakes make a difference, as does proper balance....but towing 10k pounds is pretty heavy, towing 10k more than a truck is rated to tow? yeah ok.
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bumper tow, 20 years ago, 27k which is 17k over what any truck of that era was rated to bumper tow.

right.
So those things in your first post only apply to older trucks, not newer trucks? OK.

FWIW, even the regular diesel rams you could get from the dealer were rated to tow more than 10k lbs back then.

Tow ratings from the manufacturer are based on the off the showroom truck and hitch. Tow ratings from an upfitter in a commercial body, commercial hitch are another thing entirely.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 06:58 PM   #31
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2013 ram is rated to bumper pull 17,000lbs according to four wheeler.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests...ram_2500_3500/
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Old January 30th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #32
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So those things in your first post only apply to older trucks, not newer trucks? OK.
No, it applies to the same trucks that are still only rated to tow 10-12k.

Regardless, you didn't tow 500 lbs over the limit, you claim to have towed 10,000 pounds over the limit, pretty retarded. And funny you'd brag about it since you'd be the first to cry about someone endangering your family
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Old January 30th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #33
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2013 ram is rated to bumper pull 17,000lbs according to four wheeler.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests...ram_2500_3500/
He is referring to the Ram 5500. I saw it on Fox News recently. Towing capacity is almost 31,000 pounds.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 09:43 PM   #34
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He is referring to the Ram 5500. I saw it on Fox News recently. Towing capacity is almost 31,000 pounds.
At the bumper, with the upgraded class V hitch, it's rated for 17,000lbs and 1800 lbs of tongue weight.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #35
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2013 ram is rated to bumper pull 17,000lbs according to four wheeler.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests...ram_2500_3500/
The 3500s can be rated @ 30k pull, in a GN/5er. It was not a discussion of GN vs bumperpull, just pointing out Pesci's assertion that a 8000lb truck can't pull a 30k load, because the truck is too light.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 11:00 PM   #36
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im just doing my part to keep you two bitching at eachother.
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Old January 30th, 2013, 11:34 PM   #37
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Just to add to the stupidity, I was another one of those guys at work told to tow something with a 1 ton that shouldn't. Usually used a dump truck but it was down, we used an 02 f350 dually to tow a 23,000 pound pettibone on a pintlehook trailer. Truck actually did ok but the trailer hated it, well the trailer tires. It was balanced on the trailer very nice, the truck settled a little but didn't look overloaded (which I know it was). We also towed a cherry picker that weighed 12,000 plus trailer all the time and that really wasn't bad at all, then again I'm used to towing with my tj so everything else tows like a dream.
I don't remember what the truck is rated for but we had a huge hitch put on it, made the stock hitch look like a little class 1.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 08:53 AM   #38
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The 3500s can be rated @ 30k pull, in a GN/5er. It was not a discussion of GN vs bumperpull, just pointing out Pesci's assertion that a 8000lb truck can't pull a 30k load, because the truck is too light.

This thread has always been about a bumper pull situation. Come on, you're supposed to be smart (though over the years I'd reckon you're probably one of the biggest dumbasses I've ever met), tell us about the added leverage that a bumper pull situation puts on both the suspension and also the pushing effect when cornering.....
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