server help please - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

The Pub A friendly forum where everybody is nice, and will answer any questions you have about life.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 12th, 2013, 08:53 PM   #1
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default server help please

I have to get a Windows server to run a terminal server and do file sharing. I will have 3-5 users.1-2 will be out of state. I plan on using a regular pc in a half depth rack chasis.
What software should I buy? Do I need special terminal server software? Can I get small business addition? Should I? I don't know anything about all the versions and don't want to buy anything without being sure of what I need.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old January 12th, 2013, 10:24 PM   #2
vr
Senior Member
 
vr's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: NotMichigan U.S.A.
Posts: 3,679
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

SBS (now called Essentials) can do remote desktop services with their premium upgrade option. You'll be looking at a minimum of two server instances whether you use Essentials or Windows Standard Edition.

Last edited by vr; January 12th, 2013 at 10:40 PM.
vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2013, 10:45 PM   #3
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Can you explain that a little more? what do you mean by two instances?

My software company said they have terminal server module that works with their main program. They said it has to be installed on any version of windows server. Then I would be able to log on (remotely) and run their program without having any.special software loaded onto the computer I was using. They never mentioned remote desktop.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2013, 10:57 PM   #4
vr
Senior Member
 
vr's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: NotMichigan U.S.A.
Posts: 3,679
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Remote Desktop (RDP) is the fancy name for logging in remotely.

By two instances I mean you have Windows Server instance 1 that has Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, file shares and Windows Server instance 2 that has Remote Desktop Services for your remote users to log on to and be presented with a desktop. This second instance is where you'd install your vendors program. Think of instance 2 as a glorified PC that supports N number of simultaneous remote logons by your users and think of instance 1 as providing the basic infrastructure to support the computing environment.

I used the word instance because instead of buying multiple physical servers, some people buy hardware that's a little more robust and install a virtualization layer like Hyper V or ESXi and then install Virtual Machines on top of the virtualization layer.

Last edited by vr; January 12th, 2013 at 11:11 PM.
vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2013, 11:21 PM   #5
TJJEEP
Senior Member
 
TJJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Orchard Lake
Posts: 2,928
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TJJEEP Send a message via MSN to TJJEEP
Default

you should also include a remote desktop gateway server if this is to be accessible publicly. If your users access via vpn, not necessary.


And yes, remote desktop is the new name for terminal.
__________________
If you're like me you like to talk to things. I'm Gary Busey!!
TJJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:06 PM   #6
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vr View Post
By two instances I mean you have Windows Server instance 1 that has Active Directory, DNS, DHCP, file shares and Windows Server. instance 2 that has Remote Desktop Services for your remote users to log on to and be presented with a desktop. This second instance is where you'd install your vendors program. Think of instance 2 as a glorified PC that supports N number of simultaneous remote logons by your users and think of instance 1 as providing the basic infrastructure to support the computing environment.

I used the word instance because instead of buying multiple physical servers, some people buy hardware that's a little more robust and install a virtualization layer like Hyper V or ESXi and then install Virtual Machines on top of the virtualization layer.
ok, I understand all that.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:30 PM   #7
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
you should also include a remote desktop gateway server if this is to be accessible publicly. If your users access via vpn, not necessary.


And yes, remote desktop is the new name for terminal.
what is involved in setting up a remote gateway server?

I can use a vpn for access, if I did that then they would have access to the rest of my network. I like the idea of them only accessing the server and then using the server permissions to limit what they can see or not see. I can set up a different virtual network in my router. Can the server be on two networks at the same time? then each network would be able to access the server but not users or shares on the other network.

Currently, I have pc's in the office with vendor software loaded onto them and the data files stored on a synology disk-station server. I mapped network drives to the pc's so the user can access the different files and the vendor software can access the data files. When I install Microsoft server, should I have the local users log onto the server in remote desktop or should they continue to only use the file sharing portion of the server and continue to use the old method?


so what do I have to buy? Where is the cheapest place to buy it?

Should I buy 2003? 2008? 2012?

This looks like standard addition and does not have remote desktop? http://www.google.com/shopping/produ...ed=0CGMQ8wIwAA
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #8
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

http://www.costcaptain.com/mm5/merch...FQVgMgodmF8AGA

this says that premium has all the things I would need. this seems like a good price?
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 05:38 PM   #9
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

http://www.google.com/shopping/produ...ed=0CFgQ8wIwAA

here is 2003 premium
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #10
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Do I need something special to run two server instances on one machine?
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 08:42 PM   #11
TJJEEP
Senior Member
 
TJJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Orchard Lake
Posts: 2,928
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TJJEEP Send a message via MSN to TJJEEP
Default

So these users who are going to access the server are untrusted users? Are they not a part of your company? This is a big security issue. Do you have an existing domain with a domain controller?

Remote Desktop Gateway is easy to set up, it's just a roll that a server provides. It's considered unsafe to have the RDP port open to the internet and the RDP gateway is a safe way for public access. RDP Gateway is only available on server 2008.

You will need virtualization if you want to run three instances of server. Hyper-v 2012 is free or you could run Hyper-v inside 2008 standard.

Does this file share that the vendor application needs to access also need to be accessed by users inside your work? If not you could set up the RDP server and RDP Gateway on a separate network or DMZ.

As far as pricing, I'm not sure, I do not purchase our software or hardware.
__________________
If you're like me you like to talk to things. I'm Gary Busey!!
TJJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:00 PM   #12
TJJEEP
Senior Member
 
TJJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Orchard Lake
Posts: 2,928
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TJJEEP Send a message via MSN to TJJEEP
Default

RDP Cals are separate from regular cals, they will have to be purchased separately. I'm not up on my licensing but I think if you purchase some windows 2012 or 2008 licenses it may allow you two have two instances of server.
__________________
If you're like me you like to talk to things. I'm Gary Busey!!
TJJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:03 PM   #13
vr
Senior Member
 
vr's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: NotMichigan U.S.A.
Posts: 3,679
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/...012.aspx#tab=4


http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serve...erver/buy.aspx

EDIT: Unless your vendor says they're not ready for version X, I wouldn't recommend buying the older versions. You will want the enhancements and bug fixes the newer software has. You should also consider buying from reputable sources and not just random cheap sites via Google searches. There are a lot of rape sites with counterfeit software. Plus, since you're describing multiple desktops and servers in your business already, you should investigate Microsoft Volume Licensing programs. You'll get better pricing under a volume license program.

Last edited by vr; January 13th, 2013 at 09:33 PM.
vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #14
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
So these users who are going to access the server are untrusted users? Are they not a part of your company? This is a big security issue. Do you have an existing domain with a domain controller?

Remote Desktop Gateway is easy to set up, it's just a roll that a server provides. It's considered unsafe to have the RDP port open to the internet and the RDP gateway is a safe way for public access. RDP Gateway is only available on server 2008.

You will need virtualization if you want to run three instances of server. Hyper-v 2012 is free or you could run Hyper-v inside 2008 standard.

Does this file share that the vendor application needs to access also need to be accessed by users inside your work? If not you could set up the RDP server and RDP Gateway on a separate network or DMZ.

As far as pricing, I'm not sure, I do not purchase our software or hardware.
I have 3 separate companies and I don't want to an employee from one to be browsing through info from another. I do not have a domain or domain controller.

is RDP gateway just software that I would set up?

the file share would be used locally and remotely. Quickbooks would only be used locally and the vendor software is a d-base file set that would be used locally and remotely. the file sharing is mostly saving, viewing and sending pdf files from and to email.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:03 PM   #15
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vr View Post
https://www.microsoft.com/licensing/...012.aspx#tab=4


http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serve...erver/buy.aspx

EDIT: Unless your vendor says they're not ready for version X, I wouldn't recommend buying the older versions. You will want the enhancements and bug fixes the newer software has. You should also consider buying from reputable sources and not just random cheap sites via Google searches. There are a lot of rape sites with counterfeit software. Plus, since you're describing multiple desktops and servers in your business already, you should investigate Microsoft Volume Licensing programs. You'll get better pricing under a volume license program.
I see from your link that 2012 essentials has what I need and the price is within my budget. I will follow your advice about a reputable dealer.

Thank you for the help.

Last edited by fukkinrizzo; January 13th, 2013 at 10:06 PM.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:06 PM   #16
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
RDP Cals are separate from regular cals, they will have to be purchased separately. I'm not up on my licensing but I think if you purchase some windows 2012 or 2008 licenses it may allow you two have two instances of server.
I dont think I will need that with essentials. I'm pretty sure I can download a trial version. Thank you for the help.
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #17
vr
Senior Member
 
vr's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: NotMichigan U.S.A.
Posts: 3,679
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

There's no trial version of Remote Desktop Services, it's just a role that you add to the Windows Server you'll be allowing remote users to log on to. But there is trial versions of Windows so you can get it all set up and try it out before you fork over your money.

When you add the role, it has a 120 day expiry. After 120 days you have to plug in client access licenses to continue using the remote login feature. There are some sources out there that can tell you which bits to flip to get another 120 days.
vr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2013, 05:29 AM   #18
AFRd_CJ5
Senior Member
 
AFRd_CJ5's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-26-07
Location: Carson City
Posts: 710
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

I would call MS directly to make sure you know what you're purchasing. I'm not completely up on 2012, but from what I've seen (and being that it is the "replacement" for SBS), you are only allowed 2 RDP connections to Essentials, for administration. You cannot install RDS on Essentials (same as SBS was).
You are limited to the number of end users (same as SBS), which could become a problem in the future.
And it is also my understanding the Hyper-V role is not there for Essentials, so you cannot use Essentials to run virtuals.
Also, if Essentials is the same as SBS was, it will force you (there were ways around the old SBS, not sure on Essentials) to install as an Active Directory/Domain controller environment. Running RDS on a domain controller is not recommended. And honestly, for what you're looking to do, having something that is a DC is only going to add to the overhead.
AFRd_CJ5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 14th, 2013, 09:15 AM   #19
TJJEEP
Senior Member
 
TJJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Orchard Lake
Posts: 2,928
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TJJEEP Send a message via MSN to TJJEEP
Default

With a limited budget and the scenario you posted I would do this one of two ways. It is not ideal but will get the job done.

A) Three servers. 1- Domain controller, 1- RDP server, 1-RDP Gateway. Everyone who has to connect inside and outside of the network needs their own account on the domain. Through NTFS permissions you can restrict access to resources like file shares and other computers.

B) Two servers. 1- Domain Controller, 1-RDP Server, VPN Access

What do you have for VPN? Does your VPN appliance support RADIUS authentication?

RDP gateway is just a role that Windows server can do. Windows servers have roles and features.

If you want to start restricting access to resources it's time for a domain and a domain will be needed if your company grows. You will use NTFS permission and group policies to restrict access to resources. This is throwing security out the window having three separate companies access the same resources but I doubt your budget allows for anything else.
__________________
If you're like me you like to talk to things. I'm Gary Busey!!
TJJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 19th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #20
fukkinrizzo
Chrome Trucker Chicks Rul
 
fukkinrizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-04-07
Location: Port Huron, MI area
Posts: 3,217
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
With a limited budget and the scenario you posted I would do this one of two ways. It is not ideal but will get the job done.

A) Three servers. 1- Domain controller, 1- RDP server, 1-RDP Gateway. Everyone who has to connect inside and outside of the network needs their own account on the domain. Through NTFS permissions you can restrict access to resources like file shares and other computers.

B) Two servers. 1- Domain Controller, 1-RDP Server, VPN Access

What do you have for VPN? Does your VPN appliance support RADIUS authentication?

RDP gateway is just a role that Windows server can do. Windows servers have roles and features.

If you want to start restricting access to resources it's time for a domain and a domain will be needed if your company grows. You will use NTFS permission and group policies to restrict access to resources. This is throwing security out the window having three separate companies access the same resources but I doubt your budget allows for anything else.
When I do the VPN I can direct it to one IP address. That will take care of the domain problem. if they can only access the server, I can control access through server permissions.

The router has RADIUS on it. I dont know what it is or how to set it up, but I can call tech support. My disk station has the ability to do a RADIUS server. It said it had something to do with wireless access????


I thought Windows server controls the domain by the users log in on the windows machine??
fukkinrizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.31941 seconds with 81 queries