Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Rig Builds and Pics Introduce your rig or post a buildup here.







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 26th, 2012, 03:35 PM   #41
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,725
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The cage design is very versatile. I have tons of little sketches over the years. Over all wheel base is going to close to 140" with the axles at the rearmost and the "bumpers" only a few inches away the tires. The wheelbase is for higher stability at higher speeds more then off road use.

Here is the front engine design



The front engine cab design was not terribly different from this. But that design had the engine inside the cab with the rear cylinders right next to the occupants. It was only 100" wheelbase and the sliding doors (that I have always really wanted to do) limited the rear track width as well as tires. The rear visibility suffered greatly but it offered the possibility of a 80" "flip out bed". Notice how the spare tire is set to be flipped 180 degrees back to form a bed. Not a bad feature but causes many other items to be in harms way.
That design was considerably lower cost. But a lot less safe and would be a pita to work on. It was also very limiting as far as future plans. When I did crash testing with that design the results were a bit scary(no real crush zones). The rear axle also has no up travel to speak of. This current design will take a hit with considerably less forces transferred to the occupants. With this design I can run a broad range of power trains, axles, and so on.

It is about having options. I want to build something not only safer but also that can perform how I want it to.

The steering is not fully hydraulic but hydraulic assist with linkage attached. I found a way to get over 30" of travel (more then the joints will support) without any binding throughout the range. Don't ask just wait and see how.

This is not a complicated build. I do have everything planned, over planned, and checked before welding. I make small changes as I am going like anyone does. But the design is firm, very flexible, and is something I am proud of.

I know there is a possibility of grenading the brown lipe that is why it is divorced. In the event of it's removal the transfer case's 0.75/1 ratio will still give a useable overdrive.
People have been using sm465's behind 472 and 500's for years. If it goes out I will replace it. They are cheap and easy to work on just how I like it. If I feel I need more beef they have a larger rated version.

I am not using coil shocks. After looking at them closely and just how limited they would make this as well as the constant maintenance required to run the amount I want to run this. I have chosen to go with a different and in my mind better route.

I will not talk much about the suspension. Because it is different and therefor stupid. I will just say that I have done it before and will be simply increasing the speed and travel of that proven version. The median travel position will give 15" of clearance under the cab with the roof being 72" off the ground.


This is designed for everything except crawling. Think a score car built just to have fun and run at those speeds. Ideally this will be used for winter wheeling and woods wheeling at high rates of speed. This is designed to drive to the trail not be a queen. More then anything this is designed to be comfy, easy to work on, as well as safe.

At this point I do not fully know what axles I am using. I do expect them to be considerably expensive to handle the amount of abuse projected. What I plan on doing with this the stock fj62's axles will not be up to it. This was first designed to use passenger side shortened 2.5 rocks from the start and 40" tires. There is nothing over the axle tubes for 10" giving more travel then I will ever use with this.
The ratios I want to run are between 6.2 and 7 so if I continue with the fj62 style axles a different housing with Dana components will be used. The bottom of the axle tube is set to be flush with the bottom of the cab. Realistically I see running passenger one ton built hybrid Dana (made to be jumped on rare occasions) of some type.
I have been drooling over that sixty9 axle for a few years now though.

Right now I am simply saving as far as the axles are concerned. Once I feel I have enough saved I will contact people. I still have a long ways to go before I am ready to put axles under this. The axles are the largest step in this build cost wise so be patient.
One thing that I do not planning on doing with this build is settling to just get it done. Taking my time and overbuilding it from the start will give a better result.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #42
knixon804
THE GENERAL
 
knixon804's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-26-09
Location: Traverse City MI
Posts: 1,200
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

subscribed
__________________
CUMMINS ON 37'S,8"BDS LONG ARM,TWIN TURBO...TOW PIG
WRANGLER ON 40'S,ROCKJOCK 60/D70,LINKED,ORI STRUTS,6.0 LQ9, LS6 GOODIES, 4l80E, ATLAS 3.0...TRAILER QUEEN
JK 2 DOOR, 3" BDS LIFT, 15" PROCOMP STEELIES
knixon804 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #43
bluminade
Bluminade Has Arrived
 
bluminade's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-31-08
Location: belding,mi
Posts: 649
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

cant wait to see it done, i do agree with tack welding so you can make some adjustments when needed. (it makes things allot easier)
bluminade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #44
ssgtgaines
Senior Member
 
ssgtgaines's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-18-06
Location: KALAMAZOO MI
Posts: 201
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Use that bender some more man.
ssgtgaines is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2012, 06:46 PM   #45
chevotass
Senior Member
 
chevotass's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-02-06
Location: goodrich
Posts: 6,278
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to chevotass
Default

keep it up. spring is around the corner
chevotass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2012, 07:17 PM   #46
bigbchevy
missmrgreenagain
 
bigbchevy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-07
Location: fenton /hartland mi
Posts: 18,588
iTrader: (164)
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Default

Love it
__________________
H.o.r.e
(mr.green)So you are calling CC a liar?? Not a nice way to treat your bitch.
tube bending and gear installs pm me for info! gears installed for $150 and up per axle.
bigbchevy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #47
liv2mx
i like jungle gym's.
 
liv2mx's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-10-05
Location: silver lake
Posts: 11,162
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

awesome! good choice on not using those coil over shocks.they are a lot of work.
liv2mx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2012, 08:01 PM   #48
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,768
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
awesome! good choice on not using those coil over shocks.they are a lot of work.
They're HORRIBLE!
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #49
chadcooper55
expert jeep disassembler
 
chadcooper55's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-28-08
Location: kent city mi
Posts: 8,026
iTrader: (20)
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post

I am double welding a lot of my joints just to make sure everything stays together when I roll this thing.


why on earth are you welding it like that? it is doing ZERO to add to the strength.
__________________
I hate being bipolar, its great!

jeep turned buggy now back to jeep
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=175584
chadcooper55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #50
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,725
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Yea don't know what I was thinking with that weld. I grinded that down and cleaned it up afterwards.


I plan on using most of my practice bends making them true 90's then notching them for strength. The truss over the axles will have a bend to it. The tire carrier will be a simple single 180 bend but I want to use 1.5" on that. The motor mounts I plan on making bends and attaching them(and gusseting) to the cage's bottom bar. The steering linkage may need a bend to keep the geometry correct if I go with a axle that presents that issue. There is really not a lot of bends on this. I needed to do the windshield for strength but the rest on I am trying to keep the bends down. I want to be able to rebuild it easily after I roll it.

I will take your guys good advise and tack it up. This thing just has a way of moving when I am not there and breaking those tacks.
Still first time doing something to this degree and I am sure I have a few more screw ups happen before I am finished.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #51
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,725
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The thing about the coil over shocks is more about getting the spring rate correct. You guys running them know that even with the calculators the chances of a novice getting the correct setup perfect on the first try is dang near impossible.
Toss in the amount of pure guessing I will have on this(not to many builds like this to go off of) and I see myself buying 2 or even 3 sets of springs before I would get the feel and results I want. That on top of the fact that the shocks do need constant rebuilding and charging(at least every 2 years if driven like I plan) and the fact that they still will not allow the reaction time that I want had me looking elsewhere.

I am not saying coil overs are bad in any re-guard. I am just saying I feel they are not right for this build with the goals and uses I have planned. I am really trying to avoid shooting my mouth off with my crazy ideas. I am simply going to do it and you guys can give feedback after you see how it performs.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #52
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Are you doing a 1 link?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #53
Tab
Senior Member
 
Tab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Freeland, mi
Posts: 4,768
iTrader: (29)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Almost every spring supplier lets you buy one set of springs and try them on the vehicle and if they are not right then you can exchange them for the proper rate.
As long as you don't run them and scratch them all up.

I think you're mistaken about the coil overs reaction time. You do realize they are used in pretty much every 800hp trophy truck that can go 125+ over whoops right? I doubt you'll be doing that.
Tab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #54
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,725
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 92FleXj View Post
Are you doing a 1 link?
Triangulated 4 link front, 3 link rear with watts linkage.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #55
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,764
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Not to rain on your parade. But why don't you buy a prebulit chassis? I'd hate to see you hurt/kill yourself in a rig that structurally can't handle it. Sometimes it's better to save the cash for safety sakes. It seems as tho this is above your skill level. And it may save you cash in the long run. All the other things you want to do such as drivetrain and all it fine. But the welding and fab work is not your strong suit. And I just don't want to see you hurt your self in this contraption. I am not trying to be a dick by any means. But your using a welder meant for sheet metal. If your a good to great welder you can pull it off with the equipment you have. But I don't believe your getting the penetration you need from your 110v unit.

So I think from looking at your pics you have a ton of cold welds that will break apart just driving down a paved road. Now I'm not saying I am a expert but I have been welding and fabbing for a long time. But if you are set on doing it yourself please have someone that knows they are doing inspect it for you.
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 10:13 PM   #56
Fraser
Senior Member
 
Fraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-06
Location: Howell/Hartland
Posts: 4,194
iTrader: (27)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Fraser
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Not to rain on your parade. But why don't you buy a prebulit chassis? I'd hate to see you hurt/kill yourself in a rig that structurally can't handle it. Sometimes it's better to save the cash for safety sakes. It seems as tho this is above your skill level. And it may save you cash in the long run. All the other things you want to do such as drivetrain and all it fine. But the welding and fab work is not your strong suit. And I just don't want to see you hurt your self in this contraption. I am not trying to be a dick by any means. But your using a welder meant for sheet metal. If your a good to great welder you can pull it off with the equipment you have. But I don't believe your getting the penetration you need from your 110v unit.

So I think from looking at your pics you have a ton of cold welds that will break apart just driving down a paved road. Now I'm not saying I am a expert but I have been welding and fabbing for a long time. But if you are set on doing it yourself please have someone that knows they are doing inspect it for you.
not that i paid any attention to quality but that welder should be cabable of handling what hes doing. its a 211 . my lincoln 140 w flux wire is rated for 1/4"
Fraser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 28th, 2012, 10:23 PM   #57
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,764
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
not that i paid any attention to quality but that welder should be cabable of handling what hes doing. its a 211 . my lincoln 140 w flux wire is rated for 1/4"
Yes it maybe rated for 1/4" but would you trust it with your life in the hands of a novice/beginner ? I wouldn't personally if I was buliding this I would tig weld it myself. To assure proper penitration with little to no paroscity. Nothing I have ever welded has ever broke.
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2012, 01:20 AM   #58
littletrucker
I'd hit that
 
littletrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-10
Location: Bear Lake 49614
Posts: 1,492
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
To assure proper penitration with little to no paroscity. Nothing I have ever welded has ever broke.

I could believe that with your spelling
littletrucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2012, 06:33 AM   #59
cj65
Senior Member
 
cj65's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-07-07
Location: 48174
Posts: 3,764
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by littletrucker View Post
I could believe that with your spelling
Damn auto correct. I really need to prof read before I submit post. My bad
cj65 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 29th, 2012, 07:51 AM   #60
92FleXj
stacks stacked on stacks
 
92FleXj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-04-11
Location: Howell, MI
Posts: 2,278
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

A miller 211 has plenty of power to handle that.



This compared to this.



Both do the same thing..
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
Know that pocket that forms behind your knee when you sit down?

I'ma fuck it. You're gonna like it too.
92FleXj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics
Tags
4x4, buggy, cerial

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.22994 seconds with 52 queries