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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #21
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So a liberal teacher doesn't need to carry........ their choice.
If a teacher has time to hide kids in a closet, they have time to remove a gun from a lock box.

You guys want a perfect world? It doesn't exist. But history has proven that a strong defense is the best deterrent.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So a liberal teacher doesn't need to carry........ their choice.
If a teacher has time to hide kids in a closet, they have time to remove a gun from a lock box.

You guys want a perfect world? It doesn't exist. But history has proven that a strong defense is the best deterrent.
Could not agree more.

Everyone wants a For sure 100% positively safety first answer.. It does not exist
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Old December 18th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #23
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To arm a teacher, IMO, is counter productive to thier ability to teach. Instead of worrying if Jimmy in the back row is getting how to add, they have to think about, and be aware, of security for thier class. Not only that, but what would happen if they had to draw thier gun and shoot someone.
This bill wasn't about arming teachers, it was about CPL holders being allowed to carry in 'no gun' zones. If that person happened to be a teacher, then so be it. Plenty of people go about their daily jobs carrying a pistol.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 06:11 PM   #24
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I'm confused. If I put a sign on my property not wanting people to come on it with a gun yet someone with a CPL can ignore my sign? Are these "no gun" zones all public property areas in discussion or private as well?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #25
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I'm confused. If I put a sign on my property not wanting people to come on it with a gun yet someone with a CPL can ignore my sign? Are these "no gun" zones all public property areas in discussion or private as well?
It's your property, you have the right to tell them to leave. If they don't, they are then trespassing. That's basically how it stands with stores and such that aren't by law a 'no gun zone' but who do post 'no gun' signs.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #26
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Locking the doors would be a firecode violation I believe
As long as you can exit with one movement, it's with in fire code. At least that's what our fire code is here at camp and I'm pretty sure we fall under very similair, and anal retentive, fire codes. So the kids could still exit the classroom with on movement.

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So a liberal teacher doesn't need to carry........ their choice.
If a teacher has time to hide kids in a closet, they have time to remove a gun from a lock box.

You guys want a perfect world? It doesn't exist. But history has proven that a strong defense is the best deterrent.
I don't want a perfect world, I'm just being realistic. A majority of the teachers had time to put their kids in a closet because they heard the gun fire from the other room. I think the best deterrent would be limiting access to the building first. Liberal teachers, regular teachers, I think there would be very few that would choose to carry. Would that put the Responsibility on the ones that do? What's better, Leaving your kids defenseless to go find the shooter or locking the door and making sure the kids are safe?

I was not allowed to leave my bus with kids on it for this very same reason. The kids in the classroom or on a bus are the responsibility of the teacher/bus driver foremost.


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This bill wasn't about arming teachers, it was about CPL holders being allowed to carry in 'no gun' zones. If that person happened to be a teacher, then so be it. Plenty of people go about their daily jobs carrying a pistol.
Really? Because it seems that everybody thinks the answer is to arm teachers and this bill would have made that possible. I'm merely trying to say that it really isn't a realistic idea and IT IS NOT the answer to make our schools safer.

It really doesn't matter anymore though, the bill was Vetoed. I was for the bill actually. I was just trying to bring up some points why arming teachers wouldn't be an absolute solution. I'd much rather be able to carry at my work place if I ever decide to purchase a gun and get a CPL. The Camp I work at is a legal public school though, so I wouldn't be able to. I'm also not a teacher at this camp and we have 20+ buildings we would have to secure.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #27
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My wife says she would pull our girls out of school if a gun is anywhere inside it. I disagree but I think many mothers would think the same way.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #28
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The bill passing would have at least given some teachers the option to carry if they chose to. (A START to protecting our kids against a threat)
As the parent of three beautiful children in school, I personally feel like he just compromised their health, safety, and well being by vetoing it.
As well as that of every kid in school within our state today.
It's not a perfect solution, but it was a damn good start provided those folks that were in a position of authority were properly trained and willing to act in a situation where there were no other options but taking a threat down hard.
We have fire extinguishers, sprinkler systems, and alarms in the school to protect our kids, and you don't see people loosing their minds about those protection options being in place.
I'm disappointed in our Governor to say the least.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #29
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My wife says she would pull our girls out of school if a gun is anywhere inside it. I disagree but I think many mothers would think the same way.
I'll bet your wife is within 20 ft of a half dozen guns every time she shops at Walmart/Meijer's or Kmart and doesn't even know it. How much does it bother her? People who legally carry guns are no threat to their fellow citizens.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:29 PM   #30
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My wife says she would pull our girls out of school if a gun is anywhere inside it. I disagree but I think many mothers would think the same way.
People are killed with hammers, does she avoid carpenters?

Cars kill more people than guns, is she walking everywhere?

Some people kill others by setting them on fire, is she afraid of gas stations? Oh, yeah, she's afraid of cars so she wouldn't go to a gas station.

Doctors accidentally kill patients, is she afraid of doctors?


None of my guns, whether or not they are on my person, have ever taken a life. None have ever fired without my direct input. They are an inert object, incapable of doing anything without human input (well, primate input)


It seems she should be afraid of people.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:35 PM   #31
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I think her view is that school should be sterile. A gun would never be allowed to enter the building.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #32
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I think her view is that school should be sterile. A gun would never be allowed to enter the building.
The gun isn't the problem.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #33
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I think her view is that school should be sterile. A gun would never be allowed to enter the building.
Know how many people have been killed/injured by pens, pencils, scissors... Does she feel unsafe that those are in schools too? To pass time I use to throw my pencils into the ceiling. You have any idea how easily that could have been somebody's eye?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #34
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Old December 19th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #35
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People are killed with hammers, does she avoid carpenters?

Cars kill more people than guns, is she walking everywhere?

Some people kill others by setting them on fire, is she afraid of gas stations? Oh, yeah, she's afraid of cars so she wouldn't go to a gas station.

Doctors accidentally kill patients, is she afraid of doctors?


None of my guns, whether or not they are on my person, have ever taken a life. None have ever fired without my direct input. They are an inert object, incapable of doing anything without human input (well, primate input)


It seems she should be afraid of people.
I thought you sold all your guns
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #36
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I thought you sold all your guns
I did.

I was afraid that they were going to run amuck.
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