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Old December 17th, 2012, 07:55 AM   #1
mikesova
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that stupid shirt that has been making the rounds on facebook...



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Old December 17th, 2012, 08:06 AM   #2
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Yeah, having a good moral compass, strong family structure and knowing your deeds are ultimately punished by a higher being is terrible.

I see your point.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 08:07 AM   #3
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"BREAK HIS FACE"
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Old December 17th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #4
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We can have God in school, just have to allow ALL of them in.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #5
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We can have God in school, just have to allow ALL of them in.
Maybe there should be a god dance off?
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #6
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Maybe there should be a god dance off?
I was thinking more along the lines of a god barbed wire cage match.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:30 AM   #7
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I was thinking more along the lines of a god barbed wire cage match.
My money's on Xenu!
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Old December 17th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefwoohaw View Post
Yeah, having a good moral compass, strong family structure and knowing your deeds are ultimately punished by a higher being is terrible.

I see your point.
I don't see yours.

If you've ever spouted off about "them taking god out of the school", please read this article:

http://atheism.about.com/od/churchst...ayerBanned.htm
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:01 PM   #9
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I don't see yours.

If you've ever spouted off about "them taking god out of the school", please read this article:

http://atheism.about.com/od/churchst...ayerBanned.htm
Kind of what I've been saying- the difference between atheists and the religious is atheist don't care if you are religious.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #10
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Yeah, having a good moral compass, strong family structure and knowing your deeds are ultimately punished by a higher being is terrible.

I see your point.
Maybe having a "moral compass" that relies on fear of punishment from a higher power to function correctly, rather than being based on respect for our fellow man is part of the problem.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #11
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Wow, that was a terrible piece. Cherry picking technicalities really is piss poor journalism and a sign of people whos argument is flawed. The argument about taking God out of schools is a valid one. Liberal assholes forgot when they banned God to replace him with mandatory ethics classes so our kids have something like a moral compass.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 01:30 PM   #12
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Wow, that was a terrible piece. Cherry picking technicalities really is piss poor journalism and a sign of people whos argument is flawed. The argument about taking God out of schools is a valid one. Liberal assholes forgot when they banned God to replace him with mandatory ethics classes so our kids have something like a moral compass.
Did you read the link mike posted? There is no law against faith in school, there just is no endorsement of any one religion over another.

Besides, respect for others is supposed to be taught by the parents, not the schools. THAT is what is fucked up about this country, no personal responsibility.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #13
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Maybe having a "moral compass" that relies on fear of punishment from a higher power to function correctly, rather than being based on respect for our fellow man is part of the problem.
Could be but regardless does it help develop a moral compass? Seems we lack one for the most part in America.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #14
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Could be but regardless does it help develop a moral compass? Seems we lack one for the most part in America.
I don't think it's religion or lack thereof that has skewed the nation's moral compass. It's the 'succeed at any cost', me first attitude that has been creeping in with the last two generations. People who grew up with nothing and made sure their kids got everything 'so they could have a happy childhood', and then when those kids started having kids they had no idea how to say 'no' because no one ever told them no.

I know people who raised their children in very religious homes that the kids still turned out to be shitheads, and atheist, or at the least non active believers who raised well adjusted, polite children- as well as the opposites in both cases. The variable is the parenting, not religion.
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Old December 17th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
I don't think it's religion or lack thereof that has skewed the nation's moral compass. It's the 'succeed at any cost', me first attitude that has been creeping in with the last two generations. People who grew up with nothing and made sure their kids got everything 'so they could have a happy childhood', and then when those kids started having kids they had no idea how to say 'no' because no one ever told them no.

I know people who raised their children in very religious homes that the kids still turned out to be shitheads, and atheist, or at the least non active believers who raised well adjusted, polite children- as well as the opposites in both cases. The variable is the parenting, not religion.
True. Adam and Eve had a psycho but 2 out of 3 isn't so bad... lol
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Old December 17th, 2012, 07:24 PM   #16
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I don't see the shirt?
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #17
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The t-shirt says:

Dear God,
Why do you allow so much violence in our schools?

-A concerned student

Dear Concerned Student,

I'm not allowed in schools.

-God

_________________________

We have this awful school shooting the other day and it gets thousands of shares on facebook.

Now can anybody who agrees with the "ideals" of the t-shirt explain it to me? Every way I look at it, it just reflects poorly on who's ever god it is.

One way, God allows violence in school because he's upset at the decision to not allow schools to endorse a religion by having the staff lead prayers. To me, in this situation, God is a petty tyrant.

Another way, God isn't "allowed" in school, so he has no power to stop it. Is he/she bound by a twisted interpretation of federal law?

Anything i'm not seeing here?

When I saw this thing right after the shooting, I made this comment:

"So, God allows children to be brutally murdered because public schools aren't allowed to promote religion? That's pretty disgusting and if you believe this, I think it speaks more to the nature of God than the separation of church and state."

which warranted a very long and drawn out private message from a "friend" who basically told me that he can't wait for my judgement from god, yada yada yada, and that he didn't care what happened to me. And he de-friended me. ;)

Was my comment offensive? Was it more or less offensive than the message on the t-shirt?

Last edited by mikesova; December 18th, 2012 at 08:48 AM.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post

One way, God allows violence in school because he's upset at the decision to not allow schools to endorse a religion by having the staff lead prayers. To me, in this situation, God is a petty tyrant.

Another way, God isn't "allowed" in school, so he has no power to stop it. Is he/she bound by a twisted interpretation of federal law?

Anything i'm not seeing here?

When I saw this thing right after the shooting, I made this comment:

"So, God allows children to be brutally murdered because public schools aren't allowed to promote religion? That's pretty disgusting and if you believe this, I think it speaks more to the nature of God than the separation of church and state."
I agree.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 09:13 AM   #19
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Kind of what I've been saying- the difference between atheists and the religious is atheist don't care if you are religious.
this isn't true, if atheist didn't care what others believed, then why would they care if kids were allowed to pray in school, or the possibility of God were mentioned in school, or if a nativity scene were displayed in a city owned park or lawn?

Not that all atheists do, but some do, or they wouldn't be sueing to take all mention of God out of schools and gov't owned places.

Last edited by swampjeep; December 18th, 2012 at 09:22 AM.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
The t-shirt says:

Dear God,
Why do you allow so much violence in our schools?

-A concerned student

Dear Concerned Student,

I'm not allowed in schools.

-God

_________________________

We have this awful school shooting the other day and it gets thousands of shares on facebook.

Now can anybody who agrees with the "ideals" of the t-shirt explain it to me? Every way I look at it, it just reflects poorly on who's ever god it is.

One way, God allows violence in school because he's upset at the decision to not allow schools to endorse a religion by having the staff lead prayers. To me, in this situation, God is a petty tyrant.
While I don't agree with the shirt, If God is who he is, does it matter if he is a tyrant or not? I don't see the creator of the universe going "Oh, these people think I should act this way" Forget the fact that he created them and gave them the ability to think that way. Being the creator of the universe (which we're going with because we're talking as if he were a real being) he can act however he pleases.

That being said, I don't think God is a tyrant and I think he does care.

Quote:

Another way, God isn't "allowed" in school, so he has no power to stop it. Is he/she bound by a twisted interpretation of federal law?

Anything i'm not seeing here?
There are examples in the bible where, after prolonged disobedience, God leaves a city or group of people to thier own devices.

While I don't believe this personally, some Christians may argue that God has tried to be part of the public school system (and he was at the birth of our country) and because of the disobedience of our country/school systems, he has left them to what THEY think is good and moral. Further more, and I don't believe this, those morals are based on evolutionary teaching which relies on survival of the fittest and the strongest survive.


Quote:
When I saw this thing right after the shooting, I made this comment:

"So, God allows children to be brutally murdered because public schools aren't allowed to promote religion? That's pretty disgusting and if you believe this, I think it speaks more to the nature of God than the separation of church and state."

which warranted a very long and drawn out private message from a "friend" who basically told me that he can't wait for my judgement from god, yada yada yada, and that he didn't care what happened to me. And he de-friended me. ;)

Was my comment offensive? Was it more or less offensive than the message on the t-shirt?
I totally hate this T-shirt. It's the exact same thing Huckabee said on his blog too. It's so far off, it's not even funny. It's simply a political statement rapped up in religious dribble.

Here's what I believe. I think that we live in a broken world. We were designed to live perfect, with out sin. This world was designed in the same way. When ever we, as the created, think "It just shouldn't be this way" we're absolutely right. Our bodies, which are meant to live in a perfect world, know inwardly that this world is not right. That things like the CT Shooting shouldn't happen; and they shouldn't; BUT we have sin inherent in our lives. That sin causes us to separate from God and turn to ourselves for answers.

Every good and perfect gift comes from above. The further we come from God's glory, the less perfect and good we become. The caveat to that is that the longer we live away from God, the more numb to him we become. In turn, we're numbing our selves to things like love, compassion, and general care for our fellow human beings. These things come from God.

The reason for acts like this is because we live in a broken world that aches for the return to it's designed state. The only way to get back to that perfect state is Christ. Sin entered our world through one man who choose to live imperfect and disobedient and it has been erased by one man who choose to live perfect and then die for our sins.

And I've said more then once, Every single one of those that died on that day were God's Children and to say that he didn't care, or did this on purpose, would be like saying every single one of those parents did the same. That's what sickens me the most about that shirt.
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