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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #21
matt3liv
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Eh, fair enough. Thanks for the responses Bull and Easy.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #22
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No prob. Like Easy said, I'm not a professional gun guy. It's just a hobby. I only speak from what I have experienced first hand.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #23
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I have a CMMG Mark III in 7.62 NATO. It has a stainless 18" bull barrel. Its set up for LR (by MI standards) shooting.

So far, I've only tested with it Gold Metal Match 168s. I have about 550 rounds through it. With that load I can reach out to a little past 800y with excellent accuracy and reliability. I'm going subsonic after about 850y and tumbling all over the place. I don't reload, but have someone who is going to develop some loads for me to get past 1000y.

To answer your question, they CAN be every bit as accurate as a bolt gun. Applying the fundamentals of marksmanship are the key to being accurate with either one though. I wouldn't necessarily say that as a group, gas guns are as accurate as bolt guns though. There is too much variation between brands. IMO, just about every mid or lower range gas gun needs a new trigger right off the bat. Many of the bolt guns have a satisfactory adjustable triggers. On the flip side, most gas guns (I think) are running free float tubes out of the box, where lots of bolt guns are not (hogue overmold stocks on remingtons). When you are looking at a precision rifle for the distances past several hundred yards, these are both significant features.
A free floating barrel is usually a good thing but not always. On my f class bolt action McMillan highly suggested glass beading the entire barrel. It is a phenominal shooting gun. You are almost correct when you say a semi auto can be as accurate as a bolt action. A high end semi auto can be as accurate as a basic bolt action but they will not keep up with a bolt action if you go $ for $. I have many sub 1/2" bolt actions that are under $700. What does it take to get a .308 ar to shoot sub 1/2"?

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Old November 19th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #24
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Lol. It's true. Bushmaster is well known for using less than optimal steel, not staking gas keys, and a lot of other things.

If you have one that runs well, and shoots accurately, great, but with all of the other competition on the market, I'd look elsewhere if I were shopping for an AR.
I have $1000 that says if I blind folded you, you couldn't tell the differance between my Bushmaster against any other DI AR out there
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #25
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I have $1000 that says if I blind folded you, you couldn't tell the differance between my Bushmaster against any other DI AR out there
Did you jb weld the upper to the lower? I know my bushmaster has some shake to it.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #26
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A high end semi auto can be as accurate as a basic bolt action but they will not keep up with a bolt action if you go $ for $. I have many sub 1/2" bolt actions that are under $700. What does it take to get a .308 ar to shoot sub 1/2"?

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If you have sub 1/2" bolt guns that are under $700 you are correct $ for $ AR's in .308 can't compete. I'm not sure you can even get into a basic AR .308 for that kind of money. Fact of the matter is most people do not have the skills to shoot sub 1/2 MOA. Myself included. I'm pretty sure my Bushmaster's will outshoot me and I shoot those just under MOA.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #27
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Go buy a Remington model 700 bolt action in .308
Go buy a reasonably priced AR-15 .223

You will have two rifles for less than you will in a .308 AR platform

Done, AR's are not as acurate as a bolt gun.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:35 PM   #28
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If you have sub 1/2" bolt guns that are under $700 you are correct $ for $ AR's in .308 can't compete. I'm not sure you can even get into a basic AR .308 for that kind of money. Fact of the matter is most people do not have the skills to shoot sub 1/2 MOA. Myself included. I'm pretty sure my Bushmaster's will outshoot me and I shoot those just under MOA.
It is amazing what you can do with a bolt action if you glass and pillar bed the stock. Also good optics with high quality rings that have been lapped make a big difference. Then you Spend a little time with some handloads and you can shoot 1/2" groups with most quality bolt guns. Hell even my Browning 300wsm that has been bounced off rocks out west and has had the end of the barrel slammed tip first into the ground a couple times still can barely squeek a 1/2 group. That gun has a lot of hot rounds through it and it is beat to say the least.

It isn't about what a person is able to do, it is what the gun is capable of. I want to know for a fact that any issue is me and not my gun.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:55 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
Go buy a Remington model 700 bolt action in .308
Go buy a reasonably priced AR-15 .223

You will have two rifles for less than you will in a .308 AR platform

Done, AR's are not as acurate as a bolt gun.
This is the way to go.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
I have $1000 that says if I blind folded you, you couldn't tell the differance between my Bushmaster against any other DI AR out there
I've been biting my tongue with the Bushmaster crap . My Bushy gets about 3500 rounds a year and keeps on ticking. Here's a box stock Dissipater shot at a hundred . Fourteen targets twenty eight minimum shots in thirty rounds.


In fact here's a LEO trade in gun box stock Bushmaster shot by a guy with way better eyes.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:02 PM   #31
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I've been biting my tongue with the Bushmaster crap . My Bushy gets about 3500 rounds a year and keeps on ticking. Here's a box stock Dissipater shot at a hundred . Fourteen targets twenty eight minimum shots in thirty rounds.

http://youtu.be/Ga5tZScMyGM
There is nothing wrong with a bushmaster but I know mine is loose. It still shoots descent though.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
Go buy a Remington model 700 bolt action in .308
Go buy a reasonably priced AR-15 .223

You will have two rifles for less than you will in a .308 AR platform

Done, AR's are not as acurate as a bolt gun.
X3

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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #33
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Just man up and get the titanium ar-10 from NEMO...

http://nemoarms.com/portfolio/tione-.../gallery/guns/
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:28 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
I have $1000 that says if I blind folded you, you couldn't tell the differance between my Bushmaster against any other DI AR out there
Probably not, but there's a whole hell of a lot more to it than looks.

They have a bad reputation for a reason, much like Taurus. If you have one that runs, great.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:41 PM   #35
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Probably not, but there's a whole hell of a lot more to it than looks.

They have a bad reputation for a reason, much like Taurus. If you have one that runs, great.
I understand there is more to it than looks...hence blindfolded you couldn't tell what you were shooting and everything would be based off feel. As far as the bad reputation, everyone I know that has a bushmaster has never had problems with theirs...the reputation is based on nothing, and only repeated by uneducated AR snobs...

DPMS, same thing...in fact we use full auto DPMS at work and those have countless amounts of rounds through them and they still work fine...so again, where does this rep come from?
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Old November 20th, 2012, 06:56 PM   #36
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I understand there is more to it than looks...hence blindfolded you couldn't tell what you were shooting and everything would be based off feel. As far as the bad reputation, everyone I know that has a bushmaster has never had problems with theirs...the reputation is based on nothing, and only repeated by uneducated AR snobs...

DPMS, same thing...in fact we use full auto DPMS at work and those have countless amounts of rounds through them and they still work fine...so again, where does this rep come from?
Quote:
AR snobs...
Might have answered your own question.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
I understand there is more to it than looks...hence blindfolded you couldn't tell what you were shooting and everything would be based off feel. As far as the bad reputation, everyone I know that has a bushmaster has never had problems with theirs...the reputation is based on nothing, and only repeated by uneducated AR snobs...

DPMS, same thing...in fact we use full auto DPMS at work and those have countless amounts of rounds through them and they still work fine...so again, where does this rep come from?
I have had 3 bushys and never had an issue also, but I have read that some of the bushys are not made to the same standard as others are. There is a video on youtube that explains the quality of the bolt carriers of the different brands and you can see that the bushy carrier that they have on this video is not of the quality of the other guns.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #38
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The thing I hear repeatedly is the gas key's on Bushmaster's are not properly staked. All 3 of mine have been perfect. Gotta love all the shit that armchair GI's put on the interwebs.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
I understand there is more to it than looks...hence blindfolded you couldn't tell what you were shooting and everything would be based off feel. As far as the bad reputation, everyone I know that has a bushmaster has never had problems with theirs...the reputation is based on nothing, and only repeated by uneducated AR snobs...

DPMS, same thing...in fact we use full auto DPMS at work and those have countless amounts of rounds through them and they still work fine...so again, where does this rep come from?
The reputation is based on many things:
1. Non staked gas keys. For years Bushmaster didn't bother to do this, leading to a lot of gas keys coming loose while firing, rendering the rifle useless.

2. Accuracy issues. Many are known to be 3-4 minute guns.

3. Non MPI/HP tested bolts.

4. Inferior steel used for bolts. Mil-spec is 158 Carpenter, Bushy and DPMS do not use this, and there are a lot of bolts that shear teeth at relatively low round counts because of this.

5. QC issues. BM is known for shipping rifles with non-staked, finger tight castle nuts.

6. Use of commercial buffer tubes limits buttstock options.

For the same amount of money, there are much better options on the market. I'd steer clear, but what do I know, I'm just an armchair commando.
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Old November 20th, 2012, 07:46 PM   #40
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The reputation is based on many things:
1. Non staked gas keys. For years Bushmaster didn't bother to do this, leading to a lot of gas keys coming loose while firing, rendering the rifle useless.

2. Accuracy issues. Many are known to be 3-4 minute guns.


5. QC issues. BM is known for shipping rifles with non-staked, finger tight castle nuts.
Not being a dick or trying to bust your balls but have you seen any of this first hand? I certainly have not but I've only been into the AR thing for about 5 years.
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