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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #141
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If you read with words and not with emotion you will see that I never said what you accused me of saying. Do you have a counterpoint or you just wanted to share your feelings?
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Oh you're pissed off? Where in your response is the constructive part? The part about my mommy? That was intelligently thought out. I think my point is very clear. You've yet to defend the fact that we will not see another conservative president unless the Christian extremists are pushed aside. Fortunately, it will happen naturally, since we now have a younger generation that is growing up with technology and science at their fingertips and won't simply follow as sheep without questioning what's truly right and wrong.
I read that as anyone who is not of the younger technology age is a a fool/sheep. If you meant differently, so be it.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 10:56 AM   #142
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In his final post, I'm right where Scott2.0 is. I can't say I agree with all of the other BS, but this is 100% true in my book:
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #143
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I'm sorry but spending money on legislation is not Persecution. If you would like to see persecution, you need to go into Berma, PawPaw, eastern Africa, Iran, ect...
Clearly it's not as extreme as in Muslim countries, but seeking to ensure that a group of people are treated by a different standard, and with a different set of rights, is a form of persecution.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:02 AM   #144
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I read that as anyone who is not of the younger technology age is a a fool/sheep. If you meant differently, so be it.
The way I take that is that younger people for the past few decades have been brought up more so to question things instead of just going with it.

I think the older generation were brought up with the do as you are told ideal.

However calling old people fools and sheep is not how I'd roll. A few of the older guys on this board a pretty smart dudes.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:04 AM   #145
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How about spending millions of dollars, that could otherwise go to help people, on Prop 8 promotion, anti-abortion lobbying, lobbying for the protection of marriage act (or whatever it's called)?

Let's get one thing straight. I'm not for the persecution or silencing of Christians. On the contrary, I will fight for your right to practice your religion. I firmly believe that that protection stops at the beginning of government though and that is my point. Not only does Christian-rooted legislation stomp on the rights of those that follow other faiths or none at all, but it grossly diminishes the effectiveness of the GOP when it comes to fiscal conservatism. If we can let the women retain the right to choose and let Bob marry Jim, we can focus on what really matters; keeping the libs from mortgaging our futures with frivolous spending and handouts. We need to get over these hurdles before any progress can be made. Hopefully these will be moot points by the time 2016 rolls around.
I agree with this.

I am a Christian.
With some of the reading of quotes from founding fathers, I believe the country was founded on Christian faith.

However, our country was also founded on freedom of religion and the intent that we would welcome one and all.
I believe that welcoming one and all means to come to our country to follow the existing laws.

Our existing laws have changed over the years with a more open minded attitude, such as women's and racial rights. I support these.
Although on a personal level, I do not support abortion and gay rights, I can open mindedly understand that this is a direction our country is going.

We will never solve these social issues and they need to be left out of government (at least at the federal level) so that our government can do what it was intended to do.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #146
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Clearly it's not as extreme as in Muslim countries, but seeking to ensure that a group of people are treated by a different standard, and with a different set of rights, is a form of persecution.
So is telling my son that he can't have a piece of candy before dinner........


It's not even in the same ball park.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #147
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The way I take that is that younger people for the past few decades have been brought up more so to question things instead of just going with it.

I think the older generation were brought up with the do as you are told ideal.

However calling old people fools and sheep is not how I'd roll. A few of the older guys on this board a pretty smart dudes.
So you think the young people of the 50's, 60's and 70's didn't have their own rebellion and dislike for the establishment?

I agree that there is far more information at the younger generation's fingertips. But as we all know, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:17 AM   #148
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Show me the persecution.........
It seems odd that you want proof from me, but need not show proof that you are being persecuted as a religious person. Maybe the liberal media doesn't show Church's being blown up like abortion clinics, or pastors getting beaten to death like gays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

http://phys.org/news102591950.html

Either way, sign me up for the social conservative, stay out of my life party.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #149
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So is telling my son that he can't have a piece of candy before dinner........


It's not even in the same ball park.
There's no law against your son having candy before dinner. That's the difference.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:23 AM   #150
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So you think the young people of the 50's, 60's and 70's didn't have their own rebellion and dislike for the establishment?
Everybody dislikes the establishment until they become the establishment.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Aren't those words from your gen-gen-generation?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:27 AM   #151
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There's no law against your son having candy before dinner. That's the difference.
What law is it that says someone cant spend money toward legislation. I mean I know there is law restrictint the amount, but I'm pretty sure its not illegal.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #152
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It seems odd that you want proof from me, but need not show proof that you are being persecuted as a religious person. Maybe the liberal media doesn't show Church's being blown up like abortion clinics, or pastors getting beaten to death like gays.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence

http://phys.org/news102591950.html

Either way, sign me up for the social conservative, stay out of my life party.
for both posts, you know for a fact that it was a Christian that did the violent act? I didn't see it.

Its hear say, propaganda and the likes.

Disregard everything I have said,............if................you take it upon yourself to live your life thinking of others and acting toward others as you would want them to do to you. You do, and I will do it. Problem solved.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:37 AM   #153
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What law is it that says someone cant spend money toward legislation. I mean I know there is law restrictint the amount, but I'm pretty sure its not illegal.
Oh man. The persecution isn't in the spending of money to lobby, but rather in the desired outcome of the lobbying; i.e. ensuring gays don't have equal rights under the law.

I don't see how asking Christians to keep their beliefs out of government is persecution, especially when everyone here has said that they advocate your right to practice. No one is suggesting that Christians be treated differently under the law.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 11:40 AM   #154
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Disregard everything I have said,............if................you take it upon yourself to live your life thinking of others and acting toward others as you would want them to do to you. You do, and I will do it. Problem solved.
Does that include you retaining the right to make choices about your body and ensuring that women have the same rights? What about your right to get married? Same respect given to gays? If you say yes, case closed. We're on the same page.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #155
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Does that include you retaining the right to make choices about your body and ensuring that women have the same rights? What about your right to get married? Same respect given to gays? If you say yes, case closed. We're on the same page.
Do you really want to go there?

What about the Child who is half way out of the womb. (Partial birth abortion) they don't have rights?

There is no statement given by me or anybody else that will change the view on why the same sex marrage partners want the word Married in their title.
My belief is written in God's word, as one man and one woman. This is the Christian belief, and I will not deny that.
However, I have not brought this topic up or have I commented to you on it other then money spent toward legislation.

As a Christian God's word is higher law.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:14 PM   #156
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Do you really want to go there?

What about the Child who is half way out of the womb. (Partial birth abortion) they don't have rights?

There is no statement given by me or anybody else that will change the view on why the same sex marrage partners want the word Married in their title.
My belief is written in God's word, as one man and one woman. This is the Christian belief, and I will not deny that.
However, I have not brought this topic up or have I commented to you on it other then money spent toward legislation.

As a Christian God's word is higher law.
So treating others as you want to be treated only extends to those that believe as you do? You have to admit the hypocrisy in your previous statement. Just so I'm clear, you're standing by your statement that Christian "values", when it comes to abortion and gay marriage should, be built into this nation's legislature? And with that, we're back to square one and you've negated your former statement. That is precisely the angst against over-reaching Christians and the blatant hypocrisy.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:37 PM   #157
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.....

What about the Child who is half way out of the womb. (Partial birth abortion) they don't have rights?

......
That is wrong. IMHO, the stage of pregnancy where the baby could survive outside the womb is the cutoff point (don't know the exact term, but you get my point)

Also- men arguing abortion is about as stupid as women arguing NFL.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:42 PM   #158
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So treating others as you want to be treated only extends to those that believe as you do? You have to admit the hypocrisy in your previous statement. Just so I'm clear, you're standing by your statement that Christian "values", when it comes to abortion and gay marriage should, be built into this nation's legislature? And with that, we're back to square one and you've negated your former statement. That is precisely the angst against over-reaching Christians and the blatant hypocrisy.
Where did "I" over reach. Just because I don't believe what you do.
Don't you see, the very fact that this thread was started, is helping the seperation. Did not the Christians vote the same as you did?
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:43 PM   #159
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That is wrong. IMHO, the stage of pregnancy where the baby could survive outside the womb is the cutoff point (don't know the exact term, but you get my point)

Also- men arguing abortion is about as stupid as women arguing NFL.

I agree with this, that is why I didn't want to go there, although my daughter probably knows more about the NFL then I do.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #160
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So you think the young people of the 50's, 60's and 70's didn't have their own rebellion and dislike for the establishment?

I agree that there is far more information at the younger generation's fingertips. But as we all know, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
I think is probably really started making a turn through the later part of the decades you mentioned.

But I still think our society has transitioned from a do what you are told to do whatever the fukc you want over the more recent years. From the sounds of it my grandparents did what they were told without question, my parents a little less, I was taught to disagree but be respectful(yeah I know ), and now kids are taught almost to be disrespectful if they don't agree.

I know that's a bit of a generalization, but in a lot of cases I think it rings very true.
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