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Old November 8th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #101
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You can hold to your values because that is what you believe to be correct or true, even if they seem wrong or misdirected according to my views. That is what makes this country great, we can agree to disagree.

As Christians we believe God's word to be truth and God cannot lie. So when others tend to place truth according to your values that contradicts what God's word says....... then I tend to look at your views and values as wrong and not consistant to what we believe.
We have two kinds of truth, secular truth and biblical truth.
Anybody that believes in God has to know that His truth is what we should hold fast to and not worldly truth.
I can see how you hold to your values because that is what you see as truth and I don't hold it against you. It's you right. But you have to know that I will always be willing to give you my side of what I believe as values and truth. I may not agree with yours but I will read it and not tell you you are wrong, but will respect you enough to give you my opinion also.
I respect your opinion as well, please do not make your opinion law of the land.

Laws of the land are written by Men, for Men.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #102
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The GOP's biggest handicap is the fact that the press are deep , and their coverage is extremely biased. Many (too many) Americans count on the press to inform them, and are subject to their spin.
This. The GOP could stop courting the christian right, embrace amnesty and maybe even support gay marriage and the press will still have their bias toward the left. This election was not about amnesty, gay marriage, abortion on the government credit card or the economy. This election was about perception. I was amazed at how little people were informed on both sides. It reminded me of student counsel elections in junior high. Obama ran a near perfect campaign and defined Romney very early in his campaign as a rich guy who don't relate. Truth is they all are quite rich, including Obama. Bias media coverage of Romneys on camera comments sure did not help public perception either.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:18 PM   #103
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This. The GOP could stop courting the christian right, embrace amnesty and maybe even support gay marriage and the press will still have their bias toward the left. This election was not about amnesty, gay marriage, abortion on the government credit card or the economy. This election was about perception. I was amazed at how little people were informed on both sides. It reminded me of student counsel elections in junior high. Obama ran a near perfect campaign and defined Romney very early in his campaign as a rich guy who don't relate. Truth is they all are quite rich, including Obama. Bias media coverage of Romneys on camera comments sure did not help public perception either.
I believe most people are fiscally conservative. No one encourages frivolous spending. Romney lost votes due to social issues plain and simple. Did the media further peoples' concerns? Sure. Had Romney not identified himself as an enemy of women's rights and marriage equality, especially by throwing Paul into the mix, he would have won. The election was close. He didn't need to win over a lot more people to have taken it. There would have been enough people that voted on social issues that may have taken Romney, had he been a bit more neutral on those issues, that he would have won.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #104
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I believe most people are fiscally conservative. No one encourages frivolous spending. Romney lost votes due to social issues plain and simple. Did the media further peoples' concerns? Sure. Had Romney not identified himself as an enemy of women's rights and marriage equality, especially by throwing Paul into the mix, he would have won. The election was close. He didn't need to win over a lot more people to have taken it. There would have been enough people that voted on social issues that may have taken Romney, had he been a bit more neutral on those issues, that he would have won.
Your post reminds me, 3 million white did not vote in this election. Why do think that is? Antidotal evidence, but most conservatives and repubs I know who sat this one out felt Romney was too liberal.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:25 PM   #105
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If something like that were ever going to be a viable option I would say now is the time and there is 4 years to actually get something going.

The problem I see is I'm not convinced there will be anything left to save in 4 years. I know that's a pretty doom and gloom kinda view, but at this point I see no proof or reason to believe that there will be.

This world will always have the sova's and the aber's, but I think more of us than not would be happy giving a little to get a little in the middle ground instead of being stubborn jack asses far on the opposite sides.

My hope was that whoever won would look at how close the race was and realize that damn near half the country is not happy with the choice and work to bring this country to a point where everyone is on board instead of forcing their party's agenda down your throat. I highly doubt this will ever happen though.
Dude, come on. I think it's a little unfair to classify me as a fringe wackadoo, like aber.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #106
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Aber, shut the fukc up already. Jesus fucking Christ man.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #107
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I do agree that the press is very and overly liberal but the need to learn how to manipulate them a better. During the debates I enjoyed the fact that Romney was so factual and gave a lot of information but at the same time I was sure that Obamas sob stories and being an "average" person spoke to a lot of people. In this day and age. people believe the stupid crap that evokes emotion or an image through social media that draws attention more than they react to facts.
I know personally middle class educated women who voted Obama because some of the stupidity that came from . I guess if you hear something crazy once you think that is a personal stance but if you hear it from multiple people in a party you might worry its a party ideal.
The also do a better job of appealing to the younger people. People talked so much crap about how obama hung out with JayZ and beyonce but the youth think he's cool. Whether you like it or not, it is reality.

Last edited by kerryann; November 8th, 2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Mike pointed out my mistakes :P
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #108
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I do agree that the press is very and overly liberal but the need to learn how to manipulate them a better. During the debates I enjoyed the fact that Romney was so factual and gave a lot of information but at the same time I was sure that Obamas sob stories and being an "average" person spoke to a lot of people. In this day and age. people believe the stupid crap that evokes emotion or an image through social media that draws attention more than they react to facts.
I know personally middle class educated women who voted Obama because some of the stupidity that came from . I guess if you hear something crazy once you think that is a personal stance but if you hear it from multiple people in a party you might worry its a party ideal.
The also do a better job of appealing to the younger people. People talked so much crap about how obama hung out with JayZ and beyonce but the youth think he's cool. Whether you like it or not, it is reality.
You are right on about the emotional appeal Obama had. He had no choice but to appeal to emotion; The facts of his first term were too grimm to try to intellectually argue out. Romney had his facts and policy platform and I found that inspiring. However, I think he failed to inspire those who were not looking for the facts. He could not inspire the average Obama phone user.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #109
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It's God's word according to you. To me, God may mean something differently or I may interpret his word differently. A quick Google search (I am anything but a religion scholar) revealed that self-righteousness is also a sin. So now, two wrongs make a right?

The second part is my opinion. Growing up, being a Christian was about helping others in need, being a positive person and treating others with respect. Today, it seems it's more about telling others they're not acting how one sees they should be, about being spiteful, controlling and overbearing. It seems today's Christians focus more on what is being done wrong (in their opinion) than promoting good. I realize there are still Christians who don't try to control others, but sadly they seem to be the minority. It's become a very divisive group when in reality, I believe it should be something that unifies.
One thing comes to mind, love the sinner, hate the sin.
I'm thinking if a person truly cares about his friends they would not want them to continue down the wrong path. Is it not right to tell others they are going the wrong way?
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Old November 8th, 2012, 09:58 PM   #110
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I respect your opinion as well, please do not make your opinion law of the land.

Laws of the land are written by Men, for Men.
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Old November 8th, 2012, 10:07 PM   #111
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Aber, shut the fukc up already. Jesus fucking Christ man.
We all have opinions and mine is what it is and last time I looked we were in PGR.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:38 AM   #112
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One thing comes to mind, love the sinner, hate the sin.
I'm thinking if a person truly cares about his friends they would not want them to continue down the wrong path. Is it not right to tell others they are going the wrong way?
It's only the wrong path in your opinion. Your views are not the end all, be all on what's right and wrong. Again, you can't even see through your own self-righteousness.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 12:43 AM   #113
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This whole election was about perceptions and subterfuge.

The real issues are the economy and two wars without clear exit strategies.

Obie offered class warfare and sound bites while Willard talked over the head of the typical "Joe Sixpack" with talk of stimulating small business. The press collaborated with the to bury/avoid substantive discussion of Libya and selectively cover Obie's Katrina to only present him in a positive light. Willard's unvetted comment about Jeep moving to China made him look stupid.

Gay marriage, the imaginary "war on women", abortion, etc... are all juicy distractions both parties use to deflect voter attention.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 07:45 AM   #114
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I don't really think of it as stagnant thinking. Christians do have values to which we hold as truth. With the group() we tend to choose does lean toward biblcal values. If we did tend to lean left then what would make us any different than ? The do need to do something to attract the moderate/ centrist voter. I don't think leaning left of center is the answer.
Abortion and gay marriage do play a huge part in what society is leaning towards. As a Christian, morally I can't agree to place my suppport behind a party or president that encourages and forces tax payers to foot the bill.
Christianity has been around for more than 2000 years and has been hotly debated, but Christ is not going away. I do not put my faith in any one party but in Jesus Christ. At the end of the day Obama may be president for another 4 years but Christ is still in control.

Yes, and it is about time you guys realize this is not 0012, but in fact 2012. Get with the times just a little bit.



I do know that those topics are hot button issues amongst many in this country but by trying to compete with a liberal by moving from the right towards the left only creates two liberal left leaning parties. I have always said by sitting on the fence and not taking one side or the other creates division. Just my thought.
Division is created by people unwilling to comprimise, people like you on the far right. And people (like mschaffer put it mike sova on the far left). Do you never comprimise with your wife about social issues in the house? Do you never comprimise with your wife about fiscal issues in the house? Or are you going to come back and spew some bullshit that you and your wife agree on everything both socially and fiscally and there is never 1 ounce of disagreement on any single subject ever? Pick your battles, you far right wing nut job christians can't figure out how to do that for the greater good of the Country, you think your way is the only way.




I do disagreee with you about the whole gay marriage thing, It does affect society as a whole. It degrades the family as a whole. Studies have been done on homosexuality in society and how it affects children. Especially when the youth in this country is a target of gay and lesbian groups. They target schools, girl scouts and boy scouts.
Any parent with young children should be watching what is being taught in our schools.blah blah blah


Tell me, how do you view life from a different angle without imposing a different value?
An athiest or a non religious person may look at abortion as its ok its not my daughter and it is none of my business.
Another person will look at abortion as murder. The killing of the unborn.
When the governmen t gets involved of killing babies and forcing tax payers to cover those costs, is that not also imposing thier values on others?
answers to underlined portions in read.

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Being a Christian does have a responsibility. That is to inform others when they are sining and we all sin even Christians.
Homosexuality and abortion are sins. They equal in God's eye. no sin is greater than the other. But when people think there is nothing wrong with it because so many people are doing it we should just let them live as they want to. That is why Christians speak out so strongly about these issues. In God's eye no sin is acceptable and when a government makes it law then a nation is under judgement because of it. As believers we can ask for forgiveness and be forgiven but non-believers are not and are condemmed because of it.. That is why Christians are so as you would put it, shoving our religion in your face. Just looking out for your future(eternity) you might say and salvation.
blah blah blah not doing so good on our pact to not try to jam your 3" god filled cock down everyone's throat are you? You may tickle the sides, but it's never gonna be considered deep throating. Give it a fucking rest. PEOPLE HAVE OTHER BELEIFS THAN YOU AND THAT IS OK!!!

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I don't know what is better but I do know Who does. It is not my way. It is God's way, He is the boss and made the rules. I just try to follow them. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what your last sentence means? Christianity used to mean something way different, according to who? Your world view or........
I'd really like to know.
more my god is the only way bullshit...THIS is why our country is currently fucked for the next 4 years, people like you that push others away, or don't even vote because you are so self centered and stuck on your bullshit....it's never going to be perfect, choose a candidate for the best interest of the country and realize that the "melting pot" isn't a christian safe haven, its a country filled with all walks of life and that is what was "supposed" to make it great.

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I believe most people are fiscally conservative. No one encourages frivolous spending. Romney lost votes due to social issues plain and simple. Did the media further peoples' concerns? Sure. Had Romney not identified himself as an enemy of women's rights and marriage equality, especially by throwing Paul into the mix, he would have won. The election was close. He didn't need to win over a lot more people to have taken it. There would have been enough people that voted on social issues that may have taken Romney, had he been a bit more neutral on those issues, that he would have won.
Had he been a bit more nuetral, or, had some of those people realized that the government doesn't need to stick its nose so damn far into social issues.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 07:58 AM   #115
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answers to underlined portions in read.

blah blah blah not doing so good on our pact to not try to jam your 3" god filled cock down everyone's throat are you? You may tickle the sides, but it's never gonna be considered deep throating. Give it a fucking rest. PEOPLE HAVE OTHER BELEIFS THAN YOU AND THAT IS OK!!!

more my god is the only way bullshit...THIS is why our country is currently fucked for the next 4 years, people like you that push others away, or don't even vote because you are so self centered and stuck on your bullshit....it's never going to be perfect, choose a candidate for the best interest of the country and realize that the "melting pot" isn't a christian safe haven, its a country filled with all walks of life and that is what was "supposed" to make it great.

Had he been a bit more nuetral, or, had some of those people realized that the government doesn't need to stick its nose so damn far into social issues.



I'm dissappointed, you are better then that.

Asking us to give up our Core belief by our own personal Covenant with Christ is like telling you to sit on the couch and eat Ho-ho's all day.

You and I have had quite a few talks about this, ...............and I though we had a pretty good understanding of each other. The OP of this thread wanted to swing some e-nads around and he sucked you in hook line and sinker, with Aber1 to help put more controversy out there. This is what the media does to sell news.

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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #116
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I'm dissappointed, you are better then that.

Asking us to give up our Core belief by our own personal Covenant with Christ is like telling you to sit on the couch and eat Ho-ho's all day.
Not even close. Asking you to realize that not everyone believes in the same and not pushing aber style on the rest of the country which is made up of muslims, christians, jews, aethiests, non believers, non give a damners, and whatever other religions are out there means you have to realize you can not have it 100% your way on social issues and the fiscal and business side of the equation is more important to EVERYONE where as the social issues are only important so the well being of certain groups.

Example:
Jobs/Economy- In reality this is an issue that affects every single one of us, we pay taxes to support those with out jobs, we collect some sort of unemployment or government assistance when we don't have a job, and some people just don't want a job and will try and leach the best they can, but regardless of where you stand you will benefit one way or another from a country with a strong economy and jobs.

Abortion-In reality this is an issue that will mostly affect only a select few. In a black and white world (let's just think about it this way for half a second) the only people affected by abortion are those parties involved. No matter if the rule is to allow it or not allow it. This should not be how we decide who our leader is.

National Security/Foreign Policy - Again, this affects every single one of us, espescially when our nation is threatened or attacked. IE-911, if you weren't affected or say you weren't you're full of it, AND how we handle those situations is very important.

Gay marriage - This only affects those that are either gay and want to be married/don't want to be married, and those like Aber who think he is gonna catch the coodies.....

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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #117
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Not even close. Asking you to realize that not everyone believes in the same and not pushing aber style on the rest of the country which is made up of muslims, christians, jews, aethiests, non believers, non give a damners, and whatever other religions are out there means you have to realize you can not have it 100% your way on social issues and the fiscal and business side of the equation is more important to EVERYONE where as the social issues are only important so the well being of certain groups.

Example:
Jobs/Economy- In reality this is an issue that affects every single one of us, we pay taxes to support those with out jobs, we collect some sort of unemployment or government assistance when we don't have a job, and some people just don't want a job and will try and leach the best they can, but regardless of where you stand you will benefit one way or another from a country with a strong economy and jobs.

Abortion-In reality this is an issue that will mostly affect only a select few. In a black and white world (let's just think about it this way for half a second) the only people affected by abortion are those parties involved. No matter if the rule is to allow it or not allow it. This should not be how we decide who our leader is.

National Security/Foreign Policy - Again, this affects every single one of us, espescially when our nation is threatened or attacked. IE-911, if you weren't affected or say you weren't you're full of it, AND how we handle those situations is very important.

Gay marriage - This only affects those that are either gay and want to be married/don't want to be married, and those like Aber who think he is gonna catch the coodies.....
I admit that Aber1's way of bringing his covenant to the world is not the best way to do it through Wordly eyes. However, it is his command given to him through God's word. He is still young and not refined but his ferver is there.

We are accused all the time of not seeing what is best for the Country, but I will say the same about a Culture that is blinded by wickeness that has become common practice.

The things we do to each other in disrespect is similar to bully on the playground. We as a Country in the last three generations never grew out of that elementary school yard.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 08:16 AM   #118
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Not even close. Asking you to realize that not everyone believes in the same and not pushing aber style on the rest of the country which is made up of muslims, christians, jews, aethiests, non believers, non give a damners, and whatever other religions are out there means you have to realize you can not have it 100% your way on social issues and the fiscal and business side of the equation is more important to EVERYONE where as the social issues are only important so the well being of certain groups.

Example:
Jobs/Economy- In reality this is an issue that affects every single one of us, we pay taxes to support those with out jobs, we collect some sort of unemployment or government assistance when we don't have a job, and some people just don't want a job and will try and leach the best they can, but regardless of where you stand you will benefit one way or another from a country with a strong economy and jobs.

Abortion-In reality this is an issue that will mostly affect only a select few. In a black and white world (let's just think about it this way for half a second) the only people affected by abortion are those parties involved. No matter if the rule is to allow it or not allow it. This should not be how we decide who our leader is.

National Security/Foreign Policy - Again, this affects every single one of us, espescially when our nation is threatened or attacked. IE-911, if you weren't affected or say you weren't you're full of it, AND how we handle those situations is very important.

Gay marriage - This only affects those that are either gay and want to be married/don't want to be married, and those like Aber who think he is gonna catch the coodies.....
Answers to Christians reactions to all of these statements, can be found in the Bible.
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:05 AM   #119
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Not even close. Asking you to realize that not everyone believes in the same and not pushing aber style on the rest of the country which is made up of muslims, christians, jews, aethiests, non believers, non give a damners, and whatever other religions are out there means you have to realize you can not have it 100% your way on social issues and the fiscal and business side of the equation is more important to EVERYONE where as the social issues are only important so the well being of certain groups.

Example:
Jobs/Economy- In reality this is an issue that affects every single one of us, we pay taxes to support those with out jobs, we collect some sort of unemployment or government assistance when we don't have a job, and some people just don't want a job and will try and leach the best they can, but regardless of where you stand you will benefit one way or another from a country with a strong economy and jobs.

Abortion-In reality this is an issue that will mostly affect only a select few. In a black and white world (let's just think about it this way for half a second) the only people affected by abortion are those parties involved. No matter if the rule is to allow it or not allow it. This should not be how we decide who our leader is.

National Security/Foreign Policy - Again, this affects every single one of us, espescially when our nation is threatened or attacked. IE-911, if you weren't affected or say you weren't you're full of it, AND how we handle those situations is very important.

Gay marriage - This only affects those that are either gay and want to be married/don't want to be married, and those like Aber who think he is gonna catch the coodies.....
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Old November 9th, 2012, 09:16 AM   #120
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I predict a Christian civil war or at least a Republican movement to disassociate themselves with these over-bearing, holier than thou types that are doing nothing but dividing us and creating angst, all in the name of God (can you say non-violent jihadist?). Jesus would shit a cross if he could see the hatred these people are promoting in his name.

There will come a time when open-minded, progressive Christians reach a boiling point and no longer want to be associated with the negativity and stagnant mindset. Relating that to politics, it's necessary if we ever want to see a conservative president again.
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