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Old November 5th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #21
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They need to start using the technology that is available to build roads better to begin with. We should not be seeing roads deteriorate within 3-5 years of a repave. The road construction lobby is very strong. They spend a lot of money paying off people to use old standards for building roads. This keeps their construction companies working. The unions support it too. If we built roads that last 20+ years, they fear they would be out of work.
Ding Ding. I agree they do a shit job building and repairing these roads and I think they blame it on the winters.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #22
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Toll roads suck
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:32 PM   #23
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Toll roads suck
Now there's something we can agree on.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #24
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They could take lessons from Germany in road building. Their climate isn't much different but my sis said you don't come across a pothole in a city. Hell, cars can't even have a dent there though.

I wouldn't mind the extra gas tax. What I would like to see is that super-duper shitty no-fault auto insurance disappear and take that catastrophic fund with it. We have some of the highest rates in the US thanks to that.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 06:24 PM   #25
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Michigan has the same if not better standards for road construction. It's not the poor quality it's the massive amount of weight put on them. All roads after time show wear and have issues. Add the with the massive amount of weight and well it is sure to fail.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 07:05 PM   #26
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It's more than a couple cents a gallon. When we were in MO from 2007-2010 it was about $0.60/gallon cheaper. Multiply by about 40 gallons a week for me and that equals $24/week or rougly $100/month difference just for 1 car! Michiganders have and will get hosed on gas. You just don't realize it until you leave the state.

I'm in MO quite often. It's about a 20 cent difference currently.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #27
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MI needs to crack down on overweight trucks and eliminate the over 80K pounders.

I find it ironic that one of the biggest offenders damaging our roads are legally overweight trucks belonging to companies that... receive road repair contracts.

Duh.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 07:42 PM   #28
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the tax and registration increase is just another easy way out. I am dissapointed this is his proposal.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #29
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There is no way to defend a gas tax increase. If granmole would have come out with this people would be shitting their pants
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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #30
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I'm in MO quite often. It's about a 20 cent difference currently.
Perhaps, but I was living in St. Louis when Jenny from the block was running michigan, and there was a $0.60 cent difference then.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
They need to start using the technology that is available to build roads better to begin with. We should not be seeing roads deteriorate within 3-5 years of a repave. The road construction lobby is very strong. They spend a lot of money paying off people to use old standards for building roads. This keeps their construction companies working. The UNIONS support it too. If we built roads that last 20+ years, they fear they would be out of work.
Key word for the problem

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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #32
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Taxing gas isn't the way to do it. Tax the heavy hauler trucks more. Ie gravel trains steel haulers and garbage trucks. Those do the most damage to the roads. Or another way TOLL BOOTHS! Charge the out of state drivers also that use the roads to get from Canada to Ohio and beyond. And the gas tax won't help with the roads that much.

Michigan is the only state that allows trucks to haul more than 80,000 gross. Some gravel and steel haulers can haul 160,000 lbs and more. Those are what does the damage. Not the cars. And the freeze thaw cycle isn't as bad as most think. Drive a Canadian or Minnesota road. They are no where near as bad as ours.

The last Township meeting I was at I learned something interesting. Garbage Trucks and School Buses are exempt form frost laws. Not sure if they really hurt the roads as bed as people saw, but I found it interesting.


I can't say that I know any of the laws and regulations that go into building a road, but a local road by me (County Farm for the Livingston County people) was repaved a couple of years ago. It already is being patched from where the water is getting in and freezing. I would think that a road should last a little longer then that.

I don't know what the answer is. I keep hearing how Michigan is the only state that allows the weights that it does. Maybe a couple year test would be helpful.
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Old November 5th, 2012, 08:54 PM   #33
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I'm all for shitty roads. I'll make more money repairing cars if the roads are crap.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Tie Dyed View Post
The last Township meeting I was at I learned something interesting. Garbage Trucks and School Buses are exempt form frost laws. Not sure if they really hurt the roads as bed as people saw, but I found it interesting.


I can't say that I know any of the laws and regulations that go into building a road, but a local road by me (County Farm for the Livingston County people) was repaved a couple of years ago. It already is being patched from where the water is getting in and freezing. I would think that a road should last a little longer then that.

I don't know what the answer is. I keep hearing how Michigan is the only state that allows the weights that it does. Maybe a couple year test would be helpful.
Garbage trucks I know for a fact are not exempt from the frost law.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:46 AM   #35
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They could take lessons from Germany in road building. Their climate isn't much different but my sis said you don't come across a pothole in a city.
Germany's population density is much higher than Michigan's. They also have a 40 or so year head start on building their transportation infrastructure the 'correct way'.

Germany:
Population: ~81,726,000
650,000 kms of roads = 403,891 miles
202 people per paved mile of road
Total Area of Germany's landmass: 134,622 SQ Miles


Michigan:
Population: ~9,876,187
120,256 paved roads (http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,...9683--,00.html)
82 people per paved mile of road
Total area of State's landmass: 58,216 SQ Miles
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Old November 6th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
Perhaps, but I was living in St. Louis when Jenny from the block was running michigan, and there was a $0.60 cent difference then.
it's a meaningless metric unless you know for a fact that the difference was solely related the gas tax.

go check current gas prices on Statten Island right now. Or Chicago. Or Los Angeles. Bet you find a measurable difference.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #37
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Ill bet you only a small portion of gas tax goes to roads. The problem is when they make the road bed, they dont allow for enough drainage. the road cracks and water gets in. in winter it freezez and pops the ashphalt up.We have seen roads in Canada in colder climates survives much better.. One highway Im thinking of was built starting with boulders about 6ft and built about 100 ft high. Its an ideal road. I also lived in Germany, the winters there arent nearly as cold and they pay HUGE gas taxes. I lived there in the late 80's gas was about 4 or 5 dollars a liter. 3.8 liters per gallon. you do the math.
But as far as the roads, they can build them better, but the lowest bidder gets the contract and the gov specs arent good enough. They have engineers that make the specs and know the costs. So they comprimise. Winsor has the same problems with roads but they are tightening the specs here, I think. I know in Ontario the gas taxes are higher, so high in fact that the gov. uses some of the money for other social programs.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 12:57 PM   #38
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Ill bet you only a small portion of gas tax goes to roads. The problem is when they make the road bed...
I remember seeing photos and time-lapsed videos comparing the construction process of the road beds in Germany and Luxembourg to that in some parts of the United States. There was no comparison. It seemed like they just routinely would dig things out deeper and lay a much more substantial bed in those European countries than here in the U.S. I would imagine that makes a HUGE difference in how long the roads last.
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Old November 6th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #39
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I think snyder is doing a great job. i dont necessary agree with his proposal on gas tax. in fact we need to get the price of gas down and obama and this adminstration will not do anything to make it happen.
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