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Old October 29th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #21
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Matty Needs to just roll over and die! I hate that old son of a bitch.
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Old October 29th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by cameron69 View Post
correct me if I am wrong, but if you all vote no on 6 will that not allow the government to build the bridge without voters consent.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...e_399444_7.pdf
It changes the constitution to say that.
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Old October 29th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by cameron69 View Post
correct me if I am wrong, but if you all vote no on 6 will that not allow the government to build the bridge without voters consent.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...e_399444_7.pdf
I had a tough time following all the negatives in your statement.

If passed Prop 6 would require a state and local vote before any state money could be spent on a bridge to Canada.

If it does not pass everything stays as it is now i.e. not vote required to spend money on a new bridge.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 07:50 AM   #24
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Maroon must be reading some polling data that isn't in his favor, now he wants to sit down and discuss the new bridge.

From Gongwer:

It's unlikely that another bridge to Canada would put the Ambassador Bridge out of business, but Dan Stamper, president of the Ambassador Bridge Company, said the company does take issue with the way Governor Rick Snyder and the Canadian government have been working to overcome or change existing law, use subsidies and give little attention to the cost of the New International Trade Crossing.

"To use all the luxuries of government to try to kill a business that's been in business since 1927 ... is just wrong," Mr. Stamper told reporters, adding that the company was prepared to sit down and talk about how to do a project without using all of the "luxuries."

In responding to Mr. Stamper's suggestion to sit down with Mr. Snyder, his spokesperson Sara Wurfel said as she recalls, that's how it began, "and it was clear there was not a lot of room," she said. "It's also been very clear where (the Morouns are) at with it."

The press conference came about an hour before Mr. Snyder kicked off a "Yes on 1 No on the Rest" ballot proposal bus tour, which began in Grand Rapids on Monday. Ms. Wurfel said the tour would be headed up to Traverse City on Monday and to Marquette and Lansing on Tuesday. On Wednesday, the tour will hit Howell, Saginaw and Flint and then wrap up in Southeast Michigan (Livonia, Sterling Heights, Pontiac and Detroit) on Thursday.

During that first event (see related story), Mr. Snyder said he wanted the Ambassador Bridge to be viable.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 08:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron69 View Post
correct me if I am wrong, but if you all vote no on 6 will that not allow the government to build the bridge without voters consent.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/so...e_399444_7.pdf
Do you really think it is a good idea for the misinformed, typically shortsighted, easily manipulated by special interests, generally too lazy assed to put in any effort to find out the real facts, people should decide on important infrastructure?

If your answer is yes, then would you approve of the government spending millions to counteract the misinformation the special interest groups will always put out before any such vote?

There are at least 3 threads in the politics forum discussing the proposals. The quote below is from one of them.
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The only one I have a strong opinion about (so far) is Prop 6. I'm voting "No".

More than 2,000 trucks from Chrysler and Ford cross the bridge each day (plus about 200 from GM). If something were to happen and the bridge were shut down for a few days, that could be disastrous for the Big 3. (Plus the impact to the companies sending the other 5,500 trucks across each day)

The Blue Water Bridge is already at capacity so re-routing traffic up there for an extended period of time is not a viable solution.

This isn't just a Detroit or Michigan issue - $63 billion in trade cross the current bridge each year originating from Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky.

When the Ambassador Bridge renewed their bonds in 2009 even they projected significant growth in traffic through 2025. So either they are lying in their ads against for Prop 6 or they lied to their investors.

Nobody has yet to show anywhere how the new bridge will cost Michigan taxpayers any money. Yes, U.S. tax payers will need to build the customs plaza and staff that, but that will come out of money already marked for customs and transportation upgrades, is spread out across all U.S. taxpayers, and would be spent on those types of projects regardless so we may as well work to get that spending done here than let it go to another proposed crossing on the Niagara Peninsula.

Michigan will be able to leverage Canada's expenditure on the bridge project into $2.2 billion dollars of extra road funding for the state from the federal government through matching funds. Again, these are funds that would be spent somewhere in the U.S. so lets get them here where infrastructure upgrades are badly needed.

The current bridge is a security concern - because of space restrictions, in-depth secondary screenings of large trucks on the American side must be done about 7 miles south of the bridge and 5 miles away on the Canadian side. If somebody did have some bad intentions, they could have ample time and opportunity while traveling through Detroit or Windsor.

I don't think decisions on infrastructure should really come down to a vote of the public. This is one area where the professionals who live and breath transportation engineering, planning, logistics, etc. should be making the decisions.

If the the Blue Water Bridges or Ambassador Bridge were to suddenly collapse, because of the way Prop 6 is worded it would require a lengthy ballot initiative to get the ball rolling on rebuilding the old bridges. "Bridges" as defined in the proposal also includes any rail crossings or tunnels; and because of more badly worded language and ambiguity could also be used to hold up bridge construction that is not crossing an international border.

There is currently a plan to widen the rail tunnel in Detroit to accommodate double-stack cars, this proposal could put a halt to that as well.

Legally, it is undetermined whether or not Prop 6 would even have an effect on the new proposed bridge across the Detroit River because the inter-local agreement has already been signed and the presidential permit already granted but you better believe that if Prop 6 does pass, Matty Moroun will waste countless more taxpayer dollars fighting it in court (he has already won exactly 0 of the lawsuits he has brought to try and stop it).
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Old October 30th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by cameron69 View Post
correct me if I am wrong, but if you all vote no on 6 will that not allow the government to build the bridge without voters consent.
did the "government" get "voter consent" to build Big Mac? how about building I-75 or the tunnel to windsor or the I-75 bridge over the rouge river? same goes for M-22, yada yada.

i'm all for smaller or less government but it is responsible for developing infrastructure.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 10:25 AM   #27
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did the "government" get "voter consent" to build Big Mac? how about building I-75 or the tunnel to windsor or the I-75 bridge over the rouge river? same goes for M-22, yada yada.

i'm all for smaller or less government but it is responsible for developing infrastructure.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 03:30 PM   #28
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I love hearing the people who say that a second bridge is not needed because the amount of traffic crossing the existing bridge is down. Just last week Channel 7 did a story of how the Moroun's were being fined for charging customers the price of 93 octane fuel at their stations while they were actually getting 89 octane fuel. The reporter was on the riverfront with just about the whole bridge in view behind her while she did the report. From one end of the bridge to the other was pretty much all tractor trailers, bumper to bumper, not moving at all.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 08:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by cj65 View Post
Matty Needs to just roll over and die! I hate that old son of a bitch.
i can only hope. only bitch is that bastard pays my paycheck every week. My company has been so fucked lately with management issues it isn't funny. We are doing a great job at giving Holland, Conway, and R&L all our freight while the big shots sit around with their head up their own ass. Something needs to happen and fast.

As for the bridge. We most certainly need to have another one built and then hope some terrorist group bombs mattys bridge and everything nearby that he owns.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 08:53 PM   #30
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i can only hope. only bitch is that bastard pays my paycheck every week. My company has been so fucked lately with management issues it isn't funny. We are doing a great job at giving Holland, Conway, and R&L all our freight while the big shots sit around with their head up their own ass. Something needs to happen and fast.

As for the bridge. We most certainly need to have another one built and then hope some terrorist group bombs mattys bridge and everything nearby that he owns.
I would not say those kinds of things about my boss and his business on a public forum no matter what my feeling were about him.
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Old October 30th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #31
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I would not say those kinds of things about my boss and his business on a public forum no matter what my feeling were about him.
Hence, the badge....
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Old October 30th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #32
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I would not say those kinds of things about my boss and his business on a public forum no matter what my feeling were about him.
Why what's gonna happen? I, like most of his employees are a speck on the map. I am allowed to form my own opinions whether someone else agrees with them or not.
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