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Old October 6th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #61
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I think they should incentivize women not in a position to have kids to get norplants. Give them a 50 dollar walmart giftcard or an ipod to get the norplant.
I hear people who say oh it causes sickness or whatever, but for the 99% that come out ok, it's money well spent. I hate the idea of the government funding but it sure could cut the number of single mothers on welfare.
my current gf has a copper IUD, it causes bleeding for the first 4-6 months. not heavy, just the occasional spotting.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #62
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Scott, self control and personal responsibility have been preached for eons. Teenagers still get pregnant. You can't fix stupid, but you can prevent it from breeding.
By Your own Second statement you proved your third statement wrong. Sure the could get an IUD, but they could also just not do it. I think reinforcing the consequences could/should be the better way. I don't think giving our kids a pill or or medicine to 'solve' thier problems is the way to go. I think teaching them to work through the problems and realize why they are in the situation in the first place is the better way to go.

I do see it from your side though. I'd much rather a baby be born to a family then a single mother. I'm married to a women who has never met her dad and I can say, from experience, she's a bit messed up from it.


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I think they should incentivize women not in a position to have kids to get norplants. Give them a 50 dollar walmart giftcard or an ipod to get the norplant.
I hear people who say oh it causes sickness or whatever, but for the 99% that come out ok, it's money well spent. I hate the idea of the government funding but it sure could cut the number of single mothers on welfare.
The Implant is only for women who don't want to have children right? Because I've heard that can mess up the plumbing down there pretty good.
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Old October 8th, 2012, 08:43 PM   #63
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Wrong. Its a small piece of plastic and copper that is inserted into the cervix.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 12:29 PM   #64
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Sure the could get an IUD, but they could also just not do it. I think reinforcing the consequences could/should be the better way. I don't think giving our kids a pill or or medicine to 'solve' thier problems is the way to go. I think teaching them to work through the problems and realize why they are in the situation in the first place is the better way to go.
This is not just about under age girls! This is about all women that need some kind of birth control and their ability to get it. And preaching don't do it, does not work when there is no one to do the preaching. Across all income and race lines, there are parents that just don't give a fukc about their own kids!
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Old October 9th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #65
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This is not just about under age girls! This is about all women that need some kind of birth control and their ability to get it. And preaching don't do it, does not work when there is no one to do the preaching. Across all income and race lines, there are parents that just don't give a fukc about their own kids!
still curious why anyone NEEDS birthcontrol and why i should pay for it.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:02 PM   #66
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still curious why anyone NEEDS birthcontrol and why i should pay for it.
IMO I rather my tax dollars pay for cheaper birth control than supporting all these mothers and "paychecks" they birth out. More kids = more tax dollars/tax breaks. NOW NOT EVERY MOTHER, but some of them are just abusing the system and having kids like its their fulltime job. Now if they made an incentive to give women on state help UID's then I bet more of them would do it and more of them would have to work to support their kids. eather way we as tax payers end up picking up the bill on birth control or end up supporting a bunch of low income, multi kid households, food and healthcare and schooling. I see your point kickstand that we shouldnt have to worry about this period, people should practice safe sex and wait to have a child, but lots of people want the gov to take care of them and have every excuse in the book on why they are a drain on this country.

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Old October 9th, 2012, 01:51 PM   #67
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IMO I rather my tax dollars pay for cheaper birth control than supporting all these mothers and "paychecks" they birth out. More kids = more tax dollars/tax breaks. NOW NOT EVERY MOTHER, but some of them are just abusing the system and having kids like its their fulltime job. Now if they made an incentive to give women on state help UID's then I bet more of them would do it and more of them would have to work to support their kids. eather way we as tax payers end up picking up the bill on birth control or end up supporting a bunch of low income, multi kid households, food and healthcare and schooling. I see your point kickstand that we shouldnt have to worry about this period, people should practice safe sex and wait to have a child, but lots of people want the gov to take care of them and have every excuse in the book on why they are a drain on this country.
At least you have some sense....so my question is this.

Should we add another government program where we give them birth control, or should we eliminate the welfare program (or at least reform it) to a point where we don't have to give them birth control or pay for their kids?

There is no law out there that says we have to take care of the people who are unable to take care of themselves, just stupid liberal policies that make it possible for those people to live off the rest of us and abuse the system.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #68
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Lets eliminate all government food, housing and medical programs. Seriously.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #69
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Lets eliminate all government food, housing and medical programs. Seriously.
This..........or drug test for it also
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:13 PM   #70
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At least you have some sense....so my question is this.

Should we add another government program where we give them birth control, or should we eliminate the welfare program (or at least reform it) to a point where we don't have to give them birth control or pay for their kids?

There is no law out there that says we have to take care of the people who are unable to take care of themselves, just stupid liberal policies that make it possible for those people to live off the rest of us and abuse the system.
I would say add another program, sure it cost more money to run 2 and not 1 but this country would turn head over heels, riots and all if we just cut all welfare, food, and health care all of a sudden. Instead we mind fukc these people and give them a incentive to use birth control which would start saving us money right away. less kids being born = less gov help
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:14 PM   #71
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I say we just let 57 million people go cold Turkey. Chad doesn't like taxes, cuts into his drinking money.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 02:15 PM   #72
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I would say add another program, sure it cost more money to run 2 and not 1 but this country would turn head over heels, riots and all if we just cut all welfare, food, and health care all of a sudden. Instead we mind fukc these people and give them a incentive to use birth control which would start saving us money right away.
Work or starve. All the incentive you need right there.
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Old October 9th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #73
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Lets eliminate all government food, housing and medical programs. Seriously.
x2.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 10:07 AM   #74
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x2.
so which one is it?

Add another program (tax payer supported birth control)

Or

Reform current welfare programs to eliminate support for irresponsible people making more babies then they can care for?

Because I'm pretty sure I have argued against free birth control from the start of this thread, yet you seem to be in support of the idea by agreeing with steveo....
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:00 AM   #75
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so which one is it?

Add another program (tax payer supported birth control)

Or

Reform current welfare programs to eliminate support for irresponsible people making more babies then they can care for?

Because I'm pretty sure I have argued against free birth control from the start of this thread, yet you seem to be in support of the idea by agreeing with steveo....
The latter.

Given the CURRENT state of welfare, I agree with steveo in support of free birth control. This is where arguments get lost in the shuffle....arguing the ideal state of things versus the actual state of things. We can all argue all we want for how things should be, but I try to argue on the side of things that is the reality of this world.

Ideally, I'd prefer not to have any government safety net of any kind, with very few exceptions. However that's never going to happen. No one in government will ever have the balls to kick people off welfare that have kids (regardless of the responsibility being there or not when having those kids). Maybe it can get reformed, but even then birth control pills are still cheaper than paying for consecutive generations of welfare recipients. We can argue all we want about responsibility and what's right, but at the end of the day it's dollars and cents. I want whatever the option is that is cheaper for people who actually earn an income.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:05 AM   #76
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My posts were sarcasm. I was on workmans comp for most of the summer with a fucked up knee. Its not the same as some "insert racial slur here" Whore having kids at 15 and going on welfare until she dies at 73. There are many good programs and many good people that occasionally need them. We need to wean the legacy recipients, the abusers and the lazies off it. IMO if my tax dollars are going to retarded shit like electric cars and wind mills then a good birth control program is acceptable.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:06 AM   #77
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The latter.

Given the CURRENT state of welfare, I agree with steveo in support of free birth control. This is where arguments get lost in the shuffle....arguing the ideal state of things versus the actual state of things. We can all argue all we want for how things should be, but I try to argue on the side of things that is the reality of this world.

Ideally, I'd prefer not to have any government safety net of any kind, with very few exceptions. However that's never going to happen. No one in government will ever have the balls to kick people off welfare that have kids (regardless of the responsibility being there or not when having those kids). Maybe it can get reformed, but even then birth control pills are still cheaper than paying for consecutive generations of welfare recipients. We can argue all we want about responsibility and what's right, but at the end of the day it's dollars and cents. I want whatever the option is that is cheaper for people who actually earn an income.
So, based on the slippery slope, or precedent, or just simply giving the lazy more reason to build bigger government and higher taxes you'll choose the easier way out and vote in favor of yet ANOTHER government hand out program.....doesn't seem very logical to me.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #78
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so which one is it?

Add another program (tax payer supported birth control)

Or

Reform current welfare programs to eliminate support for irresponsible people making more babies then they can care for?

Because I'm pretty sure I have argued against free birth control from the start of this thread, yet you seem to be in support of the idea by agreeing with steveo....
You could say the same thing about my standpoint honestly.
Here's the way I see it. I would like to see some sort of a small very well defined and managed safety net for people. Like if your husband dies and you were poor but managing (or a defined list of scenarios) the state will help you get on your feet within 6 months by helping provide assistance if you agree to the following terms:
You are subject to random drug tests and you must pass them
You must show active participation in job hunting
You must not have any additional children during the support period
You cannot have any undeclared additional income- under the penalty of welfare fraud which is actually prosecuted

Now my ideal world isnt going to happen because no one can cut off the government teet. Knowing that I can't have the ideal situation and there is little hope of even a better situation with the politics as they stand in this country then my answer is yes to incentivizing birth control. I would make the birth control not like an IUD where they can go home and pull it out but more like the norplant where it's an injected hormone that stays in the system for five years.

L4CX- please find me one study that says that norplant/nuvaring/hormone IUD has any higher risk than taking your allergy pills, or drinking, or anything else that is reasonable. There are side effects from taking any type of drug, but if they don't occur any more often than a normal drug, what's the issue?

I had the hormone IUD while I was preventing pregnancy and it was great. Once I pop out a kid I am having another one put in.

When I got the scholarship that paid for my college I had to agree to terms like:
no drinking/drugs- if you are caught or evidence is found you will lose the scholarship
GPA above 3.8
Conduct requirements like not being an embarrassment to the school or program that was providing my scholarship

In my contract I signed there was even appropriate dress requirements, now they weren't terribly strict but I couldn't cause a scene coming to class dressed like a hoochie mama.
Why should people have to make agreements like that for a scholarship that was earned merit based, but you can't put requirements on unearned handouts?
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Old October 10th, 2012, 11:47 AM   #79
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You could say the same thing about my standpoint honestly.
Here's the way I see it. I would like to see some sort of a small very well defined and managed safety net for people. Like if your husband dies and you were poor but managing (or a defined list of scenarios) the state will help you get on your feet within 6 months by helping provide assistance if you agree to the following terms:
You are subject to random drug tests and you must pass them
You must show active participation in job hunting
You must not have any additional children during the support period
You cannot have any undeclared additional income- under the penalty of welfare fraud which is actually prosecuted

Now my ideal world isnt going to happen because no one can cut off the government teet. Knowing that I can't have the ideal situation and there is little hope of even a better situation with the politics as they stand in this country then my answer is yes to incentivizing birth control. I would make the birth control not like an IUD where they can go home and pull it out but more like the norplant where it's an injected hormone that stays in the system for five years.
This is scary.....I agree with the first half of your post, until you get to the underlined part.

To me this is like saying Mikey beats me, but it's too late to stop it so as long as he doesn't do it in front of our turtles its ok.

Or, mikey sleeps with the neighbor, and it breaks my heart, but as long as he doesn't bring home an STD its ok....

The government already provides way too much welfare, but since we (the working people) are being out voted, I'm ok with adding another program....

I can't believe I'm reading this shit.
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Old October 10th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #80
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This is scary.....I agree with the first half of your post, until you get to the underlined part.

To me this is like saying Mikey beats me, but it's too late to stop it so as long as he doesn't do it in front of our turtles its ok.

Or, mikey sleeps with the neighbor, and it breaks my heart, but as long as he doesn't bring home an STD its ok....

The government already provides way too much welfare, but since we (the working people) are being out voted, I'm ok with adding another program....

I can't believe I'm reading this shit.
Hey, I am going to do my best in voting to make it stop but I have zero faith in this country electing someone with the balls to cut off the government teet. Do you have that faith still? If so explain to me how you think it will happen. I see it only getting worse and worse moving forward. Sad but truth from my perspective.
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