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Old September 12th, 2012, 02:23 PM   #21
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Have you thought about putting a full sliding door on the side that faces SW, so if you wanted to pull something longer or wider inside you have that ability?
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Old September 12th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #22
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Not really. About 10ft behind the building is woods, so I would have to back out anyway. There's no chance to drive through and then turn. I would prefer to save that area back there for a possible addition anyway.

I do have the ability to relatively easily drive the truck and trailer around and then back it up into one of the bays.


I am not super active with projects or bringing home lots of big stuff. Just want a shop to store and work on my couple Jeeps.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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I'd put one on the traditional side an on of the wall next to it. Allows for room to pull a truck or trailer in. What about a door that slides? It can be made to seal tight on one or the long side walls for heating.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 03:13 PM   #24
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When I went to bulid mine I started out with a 30'x40'. I ended up with a 30'x60'. I am now looking to add on.
What I getting at is borrow beg or steal and get bigger than what your looking at. That 1200 sq feet fills up fast.
When my barn was put up I already had a three car garage with a loft and a15'addition off the back. Granted I have more cars than most people need to store. My barn is storage but does have a lift in it I use the three car for a shop.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 03:49 PM   #25
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I was going to suggest what Ryebread posted, it is the best of both worlds. My fathers 30x40 has the single door on the short side, with the entry door next to it. It is a PITA to get to certain vehicles and equipment when you need to. If he had a side door it would make things way easier.

I personally would not want a door/window on the backside only because you are far less likely to know if someone broke in for awhile. My dad lives in BFE and someone broke out a side rear window trying to get in, it would have went un-noticed for awhile had they given up. The only reason it was found is the officers walk around after the front door got kicked in. Inside the barn there was steel shelving bolted to the wall in front of the window that blocked entry there.
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Old September 12th, 2012, 06:20 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by jeepfreak81 View Post
I was going to suggest what Ryebread posted, it is the best of both worlds. My fathers 30x40 has the single door on the short side, with the entry door next to it. It is a PITA to get to certain vehicles and equipment when you need to. If he had a side door it would make things way easier.

I personally would not want a door/window on the backside only because you are far less likely to know if someone broke in for awhile. My dad lives in BFE and someone broke out a side rear window trying to get in, it would have went un-noticed for awhile had they given up. The only reason it was found is the officers walk around after the front door got kicked in. Inside the barn there was steel shelving bolted to the wall in front of the window that blocked entry there.
the one I posted is alarmed. the only service doors and windows are visible in the elevation photograph, which is also visible and driven by on the way to the main house.

the side door doesn't get used so much for vehicle traffic, but it makes a great access point for stuff like the exmark out, the kids mini bikes, bicycles, or quickly grabbing tools/air-hose hose or whatever if you're doing something quick in the driveway in the "L" part of the garage.

the big/back overhead door sits very, very close to the property line - if I'm not mistaken, he even had a variance to put the barn that close. he gets along with his neighbors, and their lot is off the adjacent street so this area is way, way in the back of their lot. anyway he could store his old back-hoe in that part of the shop before he sold it, after using it to build the various brick paver patio's. (yeah, he's the type to buy equipment, recondition it, use it for a project, and then sell it for a profit)

oh, and his hoist - I'm pretty sure it's electric - the owner of that set up is very anal engineer type, but he's also "cheap" by his own word - claims to be part scottish

anyway, like I said, it was a 10 year project getting everything done. it's nicer than some people's houses I've been in

The garage attached to the house has only a central vac in it, a small locker for boots, and two cars. literally nothing else is in it.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:03 AM   #27
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I think I will see what its going to cost to bump it to 45 or 50 ft long. It starts becoming that question of: Do I insulate the slab or have them put ceiling tin in, or pay for bigger space.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #28
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This is a more accurate shot of where its going, although the aerial is 5+ years old. You can see, drive through setup really isn't practical. But I did measure and I could increase the length a bit. The rough spot in in red. I can't go further back into the woods, its too close to the property line, and I can't go past the front line of the house.

When I drew it out, even adding 5 feet gave some nice room for extra stuff. For now, the lawm mower, snowblower, bikes, etc, will be stored in the main garage, in 'my' parking space, since my truck doesn't fit well into the garage anyway. So the barn is just for my Jeeps and shop.


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Old September 14th, 2012, 07:11 AM   #29
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My 32x48x12 has 3 10 ft doors on the long side, and entry door on the short side. My doors are 3 ft apart and have 8 ft. left on the one end for long term storage. My garage has only one door and every time I wanted to get something, I'd have to move something out of the way to pull it out. Thats why I went with 3 overhead doors. I orignially started with plans for a 30x40. My builder suggested a 32x48, because of less waisted materials. Most materials come in even number lenghts/widths. You are paying for a full piece of material, why cut it up and have scrap. My .02 is put atleast 2 doors on the long side so you can get stuff out of multiple ways, put tin on the ceiling now if you can before you hang lights. My 3 doors face the north, and sometimes you can feel the cold near the doors. As far as insulation goes I put 1/2'' tuff r board foam on the walls before the tin was screwed to the sides, just for some insulation there, then hung 1/2'' on the ceiling and blew in 6'' on top of that. I'm only out there a few days a week, and it does heat pretty well. A 250 lb LP tank will last me 2-3 years. I would like to roll r23 on top of the trusses, and fill in the walls for some more insulation, but I dont know if the extra cost is justified. I paln to move in a few years. Also plan on leaving expanding room, ie a lean-to, or addition, check your building codes for encrochment distances.
Build as big as you can afford now, and add the luxury items as they come. I would plan on your hoist placement so you can pour the footings deeper now, and stub in plumbing now in case you want to add a bathroom later.

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Old September 14th, 2012, 08:10 AM   #30
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My 32x48x12 has 3 10 ft doors on the long side, and entry door on the short side. My doors are 3 ft apart and have 8 ft. left on the one end for long term storage. My garage has only one door and every time I wanted to get something, I'd have to move something out of the way to pull it out. Thats why I went with 3 overhead doors. I orignially started with plans for a 30x40. My builder suggested a 32x48, because of less waisted materials. Most materials come in even number lenghts/widths. You are paying for a full piece of material, why cut it up and have scrap. My .02 is put atleast 2 doors on the long side so you can get stuff out of multiple ways, put tin on the ceiling now if you can before you hang lights. My 3 doors face the north, and sometimes you can feel the cold near the doors. As far as insulation goes I put 1/2'' tuff r board foam on the walls before the tin was screwed to the sides, just for some insulation there, then hung 1/2'' on the ceiling and blew in 6'' on top of that. I'm only out there a few days a week, and it does heat pretty well. A 250 lb LP tank will last me 2-3 years. I would like to roll r23 on top of the trusses, and fill in the walls for some more insulation, but I dont know if the extra cost is justified. I paln to move in a few years. Also plan on leaving expanding room, ie a lean-to, or addition, check your building codes for encrochment distances.
Build as big as you can afford now, and add the luxury items as they come. I would plan on your hoist placement so you can pour the footings deeper now, and stub in plumbing now in case you want to add a bathroom later.
Thanks, sounds very similar to the useage I'm thinking of.

I was going to ask him about going to 48ft when he comes out to look at the site, and to get the cost for white ceiling tins. I can blow insulation on top of that later on.

I can't run full plumbing, since the barn is below the level of the septic, but I will run some poly pipe from the house to the barn when I trench out the electricity.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 07:53 AM   #31
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What do you guys think about floor insulation? I don't see it having a heated slab, its something that I only work out there on sporatic weekends. THinknig a gas furnace and a wood stove maybe.

Debating if its better to take the insulation money and put it towards making the barn a little longer. Or if its better to insulate, and expand later.
My Dad has a pole barn with in-floor heat. He extended the rat walls (IIRC it was 36" deep) past code and installed pink board insulation. He put some thin (IIRC 1/4" pink insulation under the concrete. He added fiberglass wall insulation and 12" plus of ceiling insulation. His thinking on the rat wall insulation was to keep the frost out from under the slab and allow the ground to heat/cool the barn. I dont know how well it did at cooling, but one time he shut the boiler off in the winter and the inside of the barn never went below freezing. The outside air temp was below reezing the whole time. I do not know the extent at which he experimented with it, but that is what I remember. If I were to build a barn in the future I would insulate the rat walls.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:01 AM   #32
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My door is on the end, I wish I had 2 on the side. I also suggest positioning the building so you can add on in the future.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:02 AM   #33
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but I will run some poly pipe from the house to the barn when I trench out the electricity.
You might as well add a network cable too. There is a type that has has goo on the outside and will self-seal. I was told by one person that it was worth the extra money compared to regular indoor cable. I dont know. Try to think of all the things you may need in 5-10 years.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:12 AM   #34
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You might as well add a network cable too. There is a type that has has goo on the outside and will self-seal. I was told by one person that it was worth the extra money compared to regular indoor cable. I dont know. Try to think of all the things you may need in 5-10 years.
Yeah, I'm going to run a 2" conduit for the power, and a 1.5" for network, phone, and directv, and then a piece of 3/4" sprinkler poly pipe or pex for seasonal water usage. I have a 1-1/4" black iron gas pipe already out most of the way, that used to run a pool heater, so I will extend that and run it out there.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #35
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My Dad has a pole barn with in-floor heat. He extended the rat walls (IIRC it was 36" deep) past code and installed pink board insulation. He put some thin (IIRC 1/4" pink insulation under the concrete. He added fiberglass wall insulation and 12" plus of ceiling insulation. His thinking on the rat wall insulation was to keep the frost out from under the slab and allow the ground to heat/cool the barn. I dont know how well it did at cooling, but one time he shut the boiler off in the winter and the inside of the barn never went below freezing. The outside air temp was below reezing the whole time. I do not know the extent at which he experimented with it, but that is what I remember. If I were to build a barn in the future I would insulate the rat walls.
I've heard this is the thing they do in cold climates, the insulated frost walls, rather than underneath the slab. (Been reading garagejournal and other sites). I have seen a lot of builds in Canada, Alaska, Minnesota, etc, where they don't insulate under the center of the slab, but go down the foundation wall, and the outward from there. I will ask my builder about it, since I will have 24" rat walls on mine.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #36
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I started leveling the site yesterday, to be able to fit 30x48, if I can afford it. I'll put the doors like this along the long side front: (which faces NW)

|----------------10ft door---10ft door---man-----|

Maybe in the future, I can put a slider along the SW wall if I find I am short on access.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #37
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My barn had size limits set by the township ...........storage is always an issue, taking up valuable floor space.
I added 2' to the sidewalls (14') and used scissors trusses. Was able to put a 15' clear height door in the gable end.
This easily enabled me to put in loft space anywhere. The center height then becomes 18' clear. Added cost is minimal.

BTW I have 4' frost walls .
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #38
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I have a 36x48x13.5 stick built with an upstairs that's 8' tall, 16' wide and 48' long. I love having a spot to put shit that I don't want down in my shop. I have it fully insulated with a single 44' radiant tube heater and two 12x12 doors on the long side. I also have an entry door on the front corner and the opposite rear corner. I just put in the bathroom last year and a hoist this last winter in one of the bays. I got an asymmetrical hoist and that allowed me to actually space it back further into the garage due to the arms being offset towards the front. I can have something on the hoist and still park a jeep in front of it. Plus still have room to work on the other end, but I'm a bit deeper than you'll be going too. The upstairs wasn't that much more really and makes a huge difference in storage space. My upstairs is about the size of most peoples garages.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #39
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I have a 36x48x13.5 stick built with an upstairs that's 8' tall, 16' wide and 48' long. I love having a spot to put shit that I don't want down in my shop. I have it fully insulated with a single 44' radiant tube heater and two 12x12 doors on the long side.
Do you find that is an efficient way to heat? What kind of cost was it?
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Old September 16th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #40
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I have a 36x48x13.5 stick built with an upstairs that's 8' tall, 16' wide and 48' long. I love having a spot to put shit that I don't want down in my shop. I have it fully insulated with a single 44' radiant tube heater and two 12x12 doors on the long side. I also have an entry door on the front corner and the opposite rear corner. I just put in the bathroom last year and a hoist this last winter in one of the bays. I got an asymmetrical hoist and that allowed me to actually space it back further into the garage due to the arms being offset towards the front. I can have something on the hoist and still park a jeep in front of it. Plus still have room to work on the other end, but I'm a bit deeper than you'll be going too. The upstairs wasn't that much more really and makes a huge difference in storage space. My upstairs is about the size of most peoples garages.

13.5' sidewall..........scissors truss? or rafters? They made me keep the ridge line at 23'6"


Or did you use attic trusses? I needed the center height to put my boat in (14'6' on the trailer) I then horseshoed the loft space around the boat and crane.

Last edited by itselliott; September 16th, 2012 at 09:03 AM.
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