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Old August 18th, 2012, 07:40 AM   #41
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All CJ AMC 20 axles came with 2 piece shafts from the factory.
It would only have 1 piece shafts if someone had already changed them out. A $230 upgrade.
Where on the housing did he show you a welded piece?
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Old August 18th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #42
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All CJ AMC 20 axles came with 2 piece shafts from the factory.
It would only have 1 piece shafts if someone had already changed them out. A $230 upgrade.
Where on the housing did he show you a welded piece?
aha! well thanks, didn't know that. thought it was something that improved over the years like the final year '86's having d44's on the rear. I know that's cause they ran out of 20's (or so I have read), but I thought the axle shafts were something they had switched out for the better over the years.

I believe the weld he showed me was right next to the differential where the tube goes in.
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Old August 18th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #43
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got my new frame today too!!!

here's a few pics. I think it looks great.
got the frame from forum member itselliot
among other things, he repaired the rear shackle section with steel box tubing measuring 3x3x3/16" and now it's definitely stronger than it was from the factory.














Last edited by 82cj7ltd; August 29th, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 10:17 PM   #44
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k so now I'm considering a 2" spring lift over a 2" body lift. how many are in favor of that?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 09:50 PM   #45
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Spring lift definately better than a body lift.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #46
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yea I've always thought the opposite cause I've always heard about death wobbles and all kinds of higher speed (highway) effects.

Apparently with a smaller lift though (2") and when it's done right, a spring lift is better. Higher body mount blocks aren't dangerous if they're done right, but it can cause re-alignment issues elsewhere, like with running all your lines and everything like that. So I'm considering one.

Separate question........ trying to figure out which tranny I have for sure. Yea I know it's a thm 400....... but I'm pretty sure my buddy told me it had overdrive........ which means it could be a 4L60 (700R4) or 4L60-e (electronic). I've found a bunch of miscellaneous pages on these trannies, but these two pages are pretty good.

http://www.fortdodgetransmission.com...tification-gm/
http://www.fortdodgetransmission.com...-gm-700-700e/#

the bottom half page of the first link and the very top and very bottom of the second link are the pertinent parts. Looks like the 4L60 had overdrive and the 4L60e had overdrive..... so...... until now I'd always read that the 4L60 was only a 3 speed..... but they think otherwise. Dare I hope???

There is so much conflicting info about thm 400's, 700r4's, which are apparently different names for the 4L60 and 4L60e, not to be confused with the 3L80e or the 4L80 (in trucks), that it kinda confuses me. Right now I guess I want to know whether it's possible to have a 4l60 with o.d......... and if not........ whether I have that or a 4l60e.

My trans tag is 3195528 if anyone can fully interpret that. First # is year I believe so 1993, which is the last year for the 4L60 which may or may not have o.d. according to various sources but I think it does. It's also the first year for the 4L60e (according to my interpretation of my sources).......... so I'm not really sure. Just kinda going in circles here. Any help?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #47
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http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/1...n/viewall.html

this is a pretty good source too, I've never seen this until now
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:30 AM   #48
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Your TH400 is a three speed. Also the only GM automatic trans to be fitted with a bellhousing pattern that matches the AMC engine blocks.
A TH400 is a different animal than the 700r4, 4l60 and 4l60e family.
Those all have OD.
Your friend was incorrect about that Jeep having an OD automatic.
It did have OD when it had the 5speed.

Last edited by Offroadian; August 27th, 2012 at 09:55 AM.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #49
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Death wobble is usually caused by worn out parts or a serious steering angle problem.
A mild lift done with the correct parts should not cause it.
However, if you already have worn ball joints, loose tie-rod ends, sloppy spring or shackle bushings or sloppy bolt holes in the shackles/ mounts, a lift will change your center of gravity enough to make those worn parts cause death wobble.

I didn't mean to tell you that a mild (2in) body lift was a bad thing.
You asked which was better. A spring lift is better because it gives you more than just room for a taller tire.
It gives you more suspension travel (articulation) = better offroad ability.
Nothing wrong with a mild body lift as an inexpensive (stage one) stepping stone to building the rig you want on the budget you can afford.
My son once said he liked his Ranger's body lift because it made it easyer to power wash the mud off the drivetrain.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 06:34 PM   #50
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Quote:
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Death wobble is usually caused by worn out parts or a serious steering angle problem.
A mild lift done with the correct parts should not cause it.
However, if you already have worn ball joints, loose tie-rod ends, sloppy spring or shackle bushings or sloppy bolt holes in the shackles/ mounts, a lift will change your center of gravity enough to make those worn parts cause death wobble.

I didn't mean to tell you that a mild (2in) body lift was a bad thing.
You asked which was better. A spring lift is better because it gives you more than just room for a taller tire.
It gives you more suspension travel (articulation) = better offroad ability.
Nothing wrong with a mild body lift as an inexpensive (stage one) stepping stone to building the rig you want on the budget you can afford.
My son once said he liked his Ranger's body lift because it made it easyer to power wash the mud off the drivetrain.
ok......... but now I just remembered my original issue with spring lifts........ wont it make my drive shaft angle too steep? It's just under 45* now, and my mechanic said that another 2" would make it too steep to operate both efficiently and vibration free. he said the angle could go anywhere from 65-75* at that point I believe, and that would be something I'd want to avoid.

Last edited by 82cj7ltd; August 27th, 2012 at 06:38 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 03:36 PM   #51
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here are the shots I have of my rear driveshafts angle. Not the greatest cause I wasn't trying to capture the angle of it, but rather the routing of the fuel & brake lines. and i forgot my camera the day I was removing my driveshafts and exhaust.

is this angle getting close to pushing the limits of reasonable with regards to r d-shaft angles?

would the change in angle brought about by a 2" suspension lift make that angle unreasonable? or at least where my u joints wouldn't last at all?

will a new driveshaft, such as one with a double-cardan joint be necessary for this to work?






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Old August 29th, 2012, 08:13 AM   #52
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The new lift springs should come with a small wedge shim to tip the pinion up a little.
I would run it that way. It should be fine if we're only talking 2" lift. If it vibrates or if you are considering more lift, Iwould buy or build 1" lift motor mounts to tilt the t-case down a little bit to match the angles better.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 10:26 PM   #53
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Quote:
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The new lift springs should come with a small wedge shim to tip the pinion up a little.
I would run it that way. It should be fine if we're only talking 2" lift. If it vibrates or if you are considering more lift, Iwould buy or build 1" lift motor mounts to tilt the t-case down a little bit to match the angles better.
o ok well I was plannin on buyin the lift springs from someone on here so I'll have to see if they have a wedge shim to change the pinion angle a bit. I'll look into the double cardan joint as well and see how much that would cost.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 08:03 AM   #54
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A constant velosity (CV) jointed drivrshaft would definatly help eliminate bad vibes, but remember, you'll have to tip the pinion up even more. It would have to be about in line with the d-shaft. A good fix if it's in the budget. I would try the cheep fix first if it's even needed.
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Old August 30th, 2012, 12:46 PM   #55
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A 400 looks nothing like a 700 r-4.

http://www.maliburacing.com/auto_tranny_id.htm

The 350 is shorter and has a bit more aftermarket support but with the 400 already in place there is no real need to swap in a 350.

The 400 does not have overdrive but that does not limit the function of this cj. Once this thing is driving if you find yourself getting annoyed by the high highway rpm's consider going to a 3.15 ratio or such. You will suffer a slight drop in acceleration but will prolong the entire drive lines life. For off road use you can look into installing a lomax 4/1 kit in that 300 along with a twin stick if you feel you want it at that time.

A 2" body lift is a good idea. You will need to relocate a few things and might want to consider a different steering shaft but it is worth doing.

As far as clearance goes though unless you want the slight added flex that a 2" spring lift will add there is really no need to put in a 2" spring lift. You can easily get the same amount of clearance by changing out fenders, flares, and opening up the tub slightly. Not only will you have better road manners then with a 2" spring lift. Your drive train will last longer and you will not NEED to swap in a CV shaft or mess around moving things around.

Last edited by cerial; August 30th, 2012 at 12:54 PM. Reason: sping
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Old August 30th, 2012, 09:09 PM   #56
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(I will NOT be offroading heavily, or as heavily as many of you, if that has an effect on anyone’s lift suggestion for me).
just sayin....
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Old August 30th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #57
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I’ve always thought a body lift would be a good idea, but no one else will agree…. Why? I’d guess it’s cause most people are heavy offroaders and they need more flexibility like a suspension lift gives them. I don’t think I’ll need the extra flex, but I guess I don’t know yet.


What else would I need besides longer fuel/brake lines and a different steering shaft? I was already thinking about getting a different shaft cause mine was just a tad surface rusted…… so I figured it was worth having a new one. How much extended would it need to be?

Why would my drivetrain last longer? Cause the drive shafts angle isn’t so high? If I swapped in a cv shaft, my drivetrain would be fine with a suspension lift, right?

Also, from what I'm told, I believe I'm running 2:73 gears right now......... so I should be fine on the highway. 3:15 gearing would give me better acceleration actually. what would you guess my rpms would be @ 70 with a 360 and thm 400?

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Old August 31st, 2012, 10:28 PM   #58
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A small body lift is not a bad idea. The problem is people get stupid with them and have a 6" body lift or such. On most of the kits out there the only thing holding the body on is bolts. The longer the bolts the greater the change they will shift or sheer in a crash. I would rather cut fenders to fit bigger tires then to add a lift. Part of that is I am just cheap at heart. I have tossed in a few hockey puck body lifts on junk rides. I always made sure to weld tabs to the frame then bolt the tabs to the body along with the cheap body lift bolts. It creates a bit more vibration but in a crash roll etc the body always stayed on and I credit the tabs to that not the bolts running through the hockey pucks.



The less angle you have in your drive shafts the longer the u joints, seals, and such will last. The more travel you have the higher chance of the pinion creating a situation where the angle is far off causing accelerated ware. If you just add a body lift your not changing the angle of your drive shafts. Your ride will remain the same. It will be better after you rebuild the spring pack and add some cheap shocks. The less rpm's your engine is turning the less wear it is creating(within the power curve). There is also a power loss with higher rpm's but I wont go into that. Lets say you have a 3000 stall and 3.15 gears running 33" tires. Your 1/2 shift is going to be around 40 and 2/3 is going to be around 60. Your going to have good acceleration around town while having around 2500 rpm on the highway.

With the stock 2.73 gears you may want to look at a 2500 stall to get close to the same shift points.

The problem is that your engine probably makes power from 2000-4000 so having it shift at the lower end of the power curve really waste a lot of the engines potential. I could be totally wrong maybe it is set up to be a torque monster and make power under 2500 making a 2500 stall perfect.

Play around with the gear ratio calculator for a while and see what makes you happy.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Here is some great tech that touches on drive shaft angles.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Driveshafts/
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Old September 2nd, 2012, 10:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
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A small body lift is not a bad idea. The problem is people get stupid with them and have a 6" body lift or such. On most of the kits out there the only thing holding the body on is bolts. The longer the bolts the greater the change they will shift or sheer in a crash. I would rather cut fenders to fit bigger tires then to add a lift. Part of that is I am just cheap at heart. I have tossed in a few hockey puck body lifts on junk rides. I always made sure to weld tabs to the frame then bolt the tabs to the body along with the cheap body lift bolts. It creates a bit more vibration but in a crash roll etc the body always stayed on and I credit the tabs to that not the bolts running through the hockey pucks.



The less angle you have in your drive shafts the longer the u joints, seals, and such will last. The more travel you have the higher chance of the pinion creating a situation where the angle is far off causing accelerated ware. If you just add a body lift your not changing the angle of your drive shafts. Your ride will remain the same. It will be better after you rebuild the spring pack and add some cheap shocks. The less rpm's your engine is turning the less wear it is creating(within the power curve). There is also a power loss with higher rpm's but I wont go into that. Lets say you have a 3000 stall and 3.15 gears running 33" tires. Your 1/2 shift is going to be around 40 and 2/3 is going to be around 60. Your going to have good acceleration around town while having around 2500 rpm on the highway.

With the stock 2.73 gears you may want to look at a 2500 stall to get close to the same shift points.

The problem is that your engine probably makes power from 2000-4000 so having it shift at the lower end of the power curve really waste a lot of the engines potential. I could be totally wrong maybe it is set up to be a torque monster and make power under 2500 making a 2500 stall perfect.

Play around with the gear ratio calculator for a while and see what makes you happy.
http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Here is some great tech that touches on drive shaft angles.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Driveshafts/

yea alright that lift stuff makes sense. grade 8 bolts aren't likely to shear though from what I've read. here's an article on grade 5 vs 8 fasteners. both pretty strong.

http://www.rockcrawler.com/techrepor...ners/index.asp

engine speed info makes sense. honestly not sure if it's set up to be a torque monster tho. doesn't the stall converter make it need more power until it actually starts going? and now that you mention it...... idk if I even have a stall converter?? or at least Idk what it is if I do have one.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 09:38 PM   #60
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got some vht chassis and rollbar paint. self-primes, dries quickly so you can get more done. 6 coats/ hour. paid less than price below but still seems to be a good product and has good reviews.

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/ja...ack-11-oz-aero


obviously I'm supposed to remove the grease and wax before I start. they also want me to lightly sand the surface with 320 grit sandpaper or a red scotch brite pad. you can see the pics of my frame above; do I want to sand a little bit of that paint off, or if I mist the frame down with a spray bottle of acetone after cleaning it, will the paint bond with that?
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