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Old July 16th, 2012, 02:47 PM   #21
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I understand what heís trying to say, but he worded horribly.
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I think that what he was trying to say is that no business today exists in a vacuum. Every business relies on infrastructure and technology that was paid for and developed by other people and organizations, often times the government. So it make sense to expect those businesses to ďgive backĒ so that future businesses can also succeed.
And that's why this country is fucked up.

He always gets the pass.

He puts his foot in his mouth, mis-words something, etc... people are suddenly saying, "Oh well, its ok, this is what he really meant."

He could say, "I hate America and next term I plan on burning this shit to the ground." After the links hit the web everyone would be saying, "That's not what he meant, I think he meant that we are going to rebuild this fine nation to its former glory" or something like that...

I do understand that sometimes things are taken out of context and feet do go into mouths. But after last time around and the crucifixions that followed everything dumb Bush said I feel no need to be remotely understanding about any little oopsie from this jack hole.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #22
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Every new startup business has the same opportunities with infrastructure and government support. Some make it, most do not. Why? I believe that those that make it are because the owner had what it takes to make a business grow. Otherwise, every new startup business would be booming.

I have watched my boss agonize over when to hire, when to lay off, when to expand/invest and when to hold tight, when to take a risk and when to walk away. He takes a very high personal responsibility knowing that his decisions effect the lives of 100 families. With that, we have been very successful. I think there are others that take wild guesses and don't do so well. All this had nothing to do with government infrastructure.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #23
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You work for Kenny Rodgers, the gambler?

You better count your money...
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Old July 16th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #24
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I get what you're saying. And, I'm not assuming you agree or disagree, I take it as you were just interpreting what he 'meant to say'...but I scratch my head at how businesses don't already give back. If the business is successful it is creating jobs, providing services and goods to other businesses and consumers, using this infrastructure everyone is talking about and the business pays to use it, etc. Anyone who has tried or succeeded at building a business at any level knows that it's not easy, and it's not 'free' to do so.
Yes. I think thatís what he meant to say. His poor choice of words was made to look even worse by the selective editing by the web pages linked. Iíd like to see the entire text of the speech.
Itís not a matter of giving back vs. not giving back. Itís a matter of degrees. Obama thinks successful people and businesses should give back more, Romney thinks they should be allowed to give back less.

Iím undecided.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 03:06 PM   #25
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And that's why this country is fucked up.

He always gets the pass.

He puts his foot in his mouth, mis-words something, etc... people are suddenly saying, "Oh well, its ok, this is what he really meant."

He could say, "I hate America and next term I plan on burning this shit to the ground." After the links hit the web everyone would be saying, "That's not what he meant, I think he meant that we are going to rebuild this fine nation to its former glory" or something like that...

I do understand that sometimes things are taken out of context and feet do go into mouths. But after last time around and the crucifixions that followed everything dumb Bush said I feel no need to be remotely understanding about any little oopsie from this jack hole.
I think it's this type of "tit-for-tat" reasoning that has this country all fucked up.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 03:55 PM   #26
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All of the vendors (D&B, Thomson Gale, EMSI, ESRI, Claritas, etc. *snip*
In the end, yes, there are privately available data sources out there, but those sources still rely on the public side of the equation as well.
Understood. I too have a long history of using ESRI for a variety of projects, and know full well that they source quite a bit from the public - in part because of necessity - you don't record your warranty deed with your neighbor afterall...

My point regarding analysis, and use of demographics for site selection etc. is aimed mostly at national, and international firms which, from what I have been told when wearing my appraiser hat, is most often based in large part upon the demographics they compile from point of sale information cross-walked with demographic information that comes from multiple sources. So yeah there is a lot of public data input into the models - but the real value added comes from leveraging their own data.

for new/smaller firms they most often do site selection based on their business model, areas they are familiar with , etc.


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I think it's this type of "tit-for-tat" reasoning that has this country all fucked up.
x2. That being said, having had 6-8 years of Obama/Reid/Pelosi blame-storming Bush, when all 3 were significant parts of the problem in 6 of those years will have a tendency for even those of us that are tired of it falling prey to that line of thinking now and again.

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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #27
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The link in the first post actually had more of what Obama said than the link you posted. But Iím not surprised since you apparently never actually read the links you post.
I found another link that I did not post and it gave almost all of what he said. The one I posted was more to the point. Obama wanting businesses to give back for what the government did. I think most businesses owners already give back in all the taxes they pay to operate. What Obama is saying is he is going to tax them even more, but in a way to convince (the population that follows him)others that they are not paying thier fare share.
The problem with taxes the rich is eventually thier money runs out and then who does the government come after to pay for all those programs they started?
I do read my links I post. I post them for others like you to be informed of what the conservative right think about obama's policies (and transparency)
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #28
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Every new startup business has the same opportunities with infrastructure and government support. Some make it, most do not. Why? I believe that those that make it are because the owner had what it takes to make a business grow. Otherwise, every new startup business would be booming.

I have watched my boss agonize over when to hire, when to lay off, when to expand/invest and when to hold tight, when to take a risk and when to walk away. He takes a very high personal responsibility knowing that his decisions effect the lives of 100 families. With that, we have been very successful. I think there are others that take wild guesses and don't do so well. All this had nothing to do with government infrastructure.
Iím sure all thatís true, but it still misses the point. Every business relies on infrastructure and technology that was paid for and developed by other people and organizations, often times the government. If that infrastructure fails, so does your business.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:14 PM   #29
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Yes. I think thatís what he meant to say. His poor choice of words was made to look even worse by the selective editing by the web pages linked. Iíd like to see the entire text of the speech.
Itís not a matter of giving back vs. not giving back. Itís a matter of degrees. Obama thinks successful people and businesses should give back more, Romney thinks they should be allowed to give back less.

Iím undecided.
He wants to tax sucessful business owners more that what they already do. Should there not be a reward for being sucessful and not a penalty?
If the government spent less and within thier means there would be more to go around and not the need to divide the classes as Obama is attempting to do.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #30
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I found another link that I did not post and it gave almost all of what he said. The one I posted was more to the point. Obama wanting businesses to give back for what the government did. I think most businesses owners already give back in all the taxes they pay to operate. What Obama is saying is he is going to tax them even more, but in a way to convince (the population that follows him)others that they are not paying thier fare share.
The problem with taxes the rich is eventually thier money runs out and then who does the government come after to pay for all those programs they started?
I do read my links I post. I post them for others like you to be informed of what the conservative right think about obama's policies (and transparency)
But taxes on the rich, by historic standard, are not high.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:25 PM   #31
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The link in the first post actually had more of what Obama said than the link you posted. But Iím not surprised since you apparently never actually read the links you post.
This one had more of the speach, but the same message.
"If you have a sucessful business you didn't do it on your own".

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/obama-if...se-made-happen
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #32
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But taxes on the rich, by historic standard, are not high.

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates
I am not one of the rich, I would say middle class and live comfortable. I pay my taxes and think I do pay too much. I think most of the tax we pay is in the form of everyday purchases.
The left in this country want to create programs to care for the people and the right would rather create jobs and put people to work.
By taxes the wealthy so the government can spend more makes no sence.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #33
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He wants to tax sucessful business owners more that what they already do. Should there not be a reward for being sucessful and not a penalty?
If the government spent less and within thier means there would be more to go around and not the need to divide the classes as Obama is attempting to do.
Unfortunately thereís not much to be gained by raising taxes on failures.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #34
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There are plenty of ways where a buiness could survive today without use of public infrastructure. The only one I see difficult to get around is roads. However, there will always be roads with or without the government maintaining/building them.

Buiness might be more local based, but they would still exsist.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #35
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Unfortunately thereís not much to be gained by raising taxes on failures.
I suppose the question is.... why do taxes need to be raised more?
We all know that our government spends way to much. It's not thier money and they seem to find a way to be wasteful.
If the people were as irresponsible as our government is with our money then most families would be in serious trouble.....didn't this already happen? Aren't we still digging ourselves out a monster of a spending problem most Americans have in this country?
This country used to be a manufacturing country that made and bought mostly it's own products.
Were did we turn into a nation of consumers? and what caused that?
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #36
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I think that what he was trying to say is that no business today exists in a vacuum. Every business relies on infrastructure and technology that was paid for and developed by other people and organizations, often times the government. So it make sense to expect those businesses to ďgive backĒ so that future businesses can also succeed.
Following that same logic, than each of us as individuals are not really free. And none of us have gotten to wherever each of us are, under our own influence.

That speaks volumes about how large our Government really is. Keeping in mind the intent of our founding documents and that the first go around failed because they were to restrictive.

Also, how much Government involvement was there during the Industrial Revolution? Why is it during the last 100 years Government has grown while manufacturing has left? Our Country experienced its highest rate of growth during times when Government was less intrusive.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #37
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So Obama says I will not be successful in my business without the aid of guberment? Bullshit. If he wants to help out, I could use somebody to clean the shitter.

Seriously, I don't feel I owe him or his legion of deadbeats anything just because I'm a business owner. The infrastructure that he "says" is provided to my business by the guberment is in reality paid for by me in the form of taxes. In fact, since I am self employed with a regular store front, I get double dipped for the local infrastructure. I'm only one person but I have to pay for everything twice (actually three times) because I own both private and commercial property.

At the least, Obama should approach this nation's troubles using a team aspect. Instead, he is villainizing the very people that are keeping this country afloat!
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #38
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There are plenty of ways where a buiness could survive today without use of public infrastructure. The only one I see difficult to get around is roads. However, there will always be roads with or without the government maintaining/building them.

Buiness might be more local based, but they would still exsist.
Who is going to invest to build this private road system? Where will you find workers that havenít been educated in public schools? If you need police or fire protection who will you call? Hopefully youíre in a location where your can have a well and septic system so you donít have to rely on a public water and sewage system. Hopefully youíll never have a situation that requires the need of a legal system.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #39
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Iím sure all thatís true, but it still misses the point. Every business relies on infrastructure and technology that was paid for and developed by other people and organizations, often times the government. If that infrastructure fails, so does your business.
Correction...

None of this is paid for by Government. Its paid for by the taxpayers. Suggesting that we owe something to the Government for building something we paid for is asinine.
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Old July 16th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #40
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Who is going to invest to build this private road system? Where will you find workers that havenít been educated in public schools? If you need police or fire protection who will you call? Hopefully youíre in a location where your can have a well and septic system so you donít have to rely on a public water and sewage system. Hopefully youíll never have a situation that requires the need of a legal system.
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Correction...

None of this is paid for by Government. Its paid for by the taxpayers. Suggesting that we owe something to the Government for building something we paid for is asinine.
The Government owes the people, not the other way around.
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