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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:52 PM   #41
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Is it really wrong of me that I don't give 2 shits and a fukc about the poor dying on the curb?

Growing up my parents were poor by your average standards. But they were never poor enough to receive governments hand outs, not that they would have taken them anyway. But they instilled good work ethic and all that jazz in me, I got good grades, went to a good college(through student loans that I DO NOT expect you or anyone else to pay back for me), and got a decent job. So now why should I have to shell out more money on top of the tens of thousands of dollars I already do each and every year to further take care of the people that just said, "fuck it i'm gonna go with the flow" and amounted to nothing in life?

This country's downfall will be trying to do too much for everyone. Humans and this country are both fucking specs on the timeline of this world and we haven't even bothered to look at how the rest of the big picture operates. For some reason over the course of a few thousand years, or with our country the past couple hundred years, we think that somehow we can accomplish what nature hasn't for billions of years. To keep everyone fat and happy. It just doesn't happen. If an animal out in the wild has a litter of whatever too big and can only feed 8 of the 10, 2 starve to death. If a pack has a fellow lion that just can't seem to hunt well or keep up it slowly drifts behind and dies in the dust. Cruel as it may be this works and has worked for millions of years...
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Old June 29th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #42
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In theory that makes sense........ until.............. it's your newborn child or infant or toddler or 7 year old or teenager who will die without medical help. Trust me, I hate the Obamacare thing as much as anyone but when it comes to your own child, survival of the fittest is the last thing you think of.
I totally agree that it is subjective in that matter. But if it comes down to your kid vs my future, the future of my children, their children, etc... I think you know where my decision lies. And honestly I wouldn't expect anyone else to make a different decision.

The system just can't support everyone.

I'd say for the most part all of us do ok. I mean how can you be in this hobby and not be... But just think of how many people and families are probably on the fringe of just making it by without governmental help. Now suddenly they see the people a step or two below them in the order starting to get better hand outs and they have to help shoulder the burden of those hand outs. What keeps them working hard to just get by instead of saying, "fuck it, I'm going on the government tit too"? Pride? How long does that last? How long until the next layer says fukc it? And the next? And the next?
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Old June 29th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #43
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I guess I could understand if what we were doing as a nation was like splurging a little bit once on a credit card, then paying it off over a couple months. But what we are doing these days is the same as taking every single offer you get in the mail, maxing them right out, and just barely making minimum payments. That's not a game plan that you can sustain.

This country is in debt to the point where it will never be paid off. We spend trillions of dollars and then have a little party when a few billion are trimmed from the budget.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:00 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
Is it really wrong of me that I don't give 2 shits and a fukc about the poor dying on the curb?

Growing up my parents were poor by your average standards. But they were never poor enough to receive governments hand outs, not that they would have taken them anyway. But they instilled good work ethic and all that jazz in me, I got good grades, went to a good college(through student loans that I DO NOT expect you or anyone else to pay back for me), and got a decent job. So now why should I have to shell out more money on top of the tens of thousands of dollars I already do each and every year to further take care of the people that just said, "fuck it i'm gonna go with the flow" and amounted to nothing in life?

This country's downfall will be trying to do too much for everyone. Humans and this country are both fucking specs on the timeline of this world and we haven't even bothered to look at how the rest of the big picture operates. For some reason over the course of a few thousand years, or with our country the past couple hundred years, we think that somehow we can accomplish what nature hasn't for billions of years. To keep everyone fat and happy. It just doesn't happen. If an animal out in the wild has a litter of whatever too big and can only feed 8 of the 10, 2 starve to death. If a pack has a fellow lion that just can't seem to hunt well or keep up it slowly drifts behind and dies in the dust. Cruel as it may be this works and has worked for millions of years...
The problem is that you're already paying the bill for those people in the form of higher costs for health care to offset the people that can't pay thier bills.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #45
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The problem is that you're already paying the bill for those people in the form of higher costs for health care to offset the people that can't pay thier bills.
That's why health care reform is a real issue and needs to be fixed, but not through a system where it will end up costing more such as Obamacare.

The frivolous lawsuits need to stop. Open up the insurance market to the free market and let competition, supply, and demand dictate cost.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 06:57 AM   #46
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That's why health care reform is a real issue and needs to be fixed, but not through a system where it will end up costing more such as Obamacare.

The frivolous lawsuits need to stop. Open up the insurance market to the free market and let competition, supply, and demand dictate cost.
And stop the red tape brigade where you have paperwork having to go through 27 offices for things to get done, and narrow it down to 2 or 3 tops. And start rejecting people that go to the emergency room for a sore throat. And bring back the $30 Dr's office visit for sore throats.

A buddy of mine knows an EMT in Indy that says he regularly has people who call 911 to get an ambulance to their house so they can say they don't feel good, then use the ambulance ride to the hospital to save cab fare.

Tweak the system we already have, don't wipe it out and start all over again. Obamacare is just another powergrab. The war on poverty hasn't worked since it's inception in the Johnson administration. The war on drugs hasn't worked since Reagan started it...what makes anyone think the war on health care will be any different?
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Old June 30th, 2012, 08:25 AM   #47
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The problem is that you're already paying the bill for those people in the form of higher costs for health care to offset the people that can't pay thier bills.
so let me get this straight...you think the cost will go down?? How about refusal of servce for those that cannot afford it...or better yet, how about a national heath care system ran by the government in the form of government clinics. Where the wait is long, the service is subpar, but its free and paid for by the poeple with jobs. You want free heath care, go to the free clinic. You want good heath care? Get a job. All those doctors that get sued for screwing with the real people should be forced to work the gov clinic as part of their punishment. Or you could have the buttholes that read shit on the internet and think they know more than a doctor...or you could just have a computer that people look their own problems up in the office instead of a doctor.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 08:35 AM   #48
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And stop the red tape brigade where you have paperwork having to go through 27 offices for things to get done, and narrow it down to 2 or 3 tops. And start rejecting people that go to the emergency room for a sore throat. And bring back the $30 Dr's office visit for sore throats.

A buddy of mine knows an EMT in Indy that says he regularly has people who call 911 to get an ambulance to their house so they can say they don't feel good, then use the ambulance ride to the hospital to save cab fare.

Tweak the system we already have, don't wipe it out and start all over again. Obamacare is just another powergrab. The war on poverty hasn't worked since it's inception in the Johnson administration. The war on drugs hasn't worked since Reagan started it...what makes anyone think the war on health care will be any different?
My wife is an ER doctor, and sees bullshit like that all the time. People have told her straight to her face that they won't pay their ER bill. Something around 50% of ER bills ever get paid. The hospital ends up losing more money using collections going after these people because by the time it's negotiated down or repaid it's a loss. So hospitals charge as much as they can to medicare and medicaid, and spread the cost to everyone else.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #49
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I feel like this will just continue to reward the lazy. I know that everyone's situation is different and some may not be able to do anything more than they already do but I pay for my own health Insurance for my Daughter and myself and I have Blue cross blue shield and it really is not that expensive at all and it is pretty good insurance. Prior to me buying my insurance myself I worked UPS strictly for benefits for my daughter while still working for myself and in school. I guess I have a hard time feeling bad for uninsured when the minute I found out i was going to have a child I went out and searched until i found another job that would give me insurance. The way I see it you do what you have to do to provide even it means working two or three jobs so you can pay for it yourself.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #50
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I feel like this will just continue to reward the lazy. I know that everyone's situation is different and some may not be able to do anything more than they already do but I pay for my own health Insurance for my Daughter and myself and I have Blue cross blue shield and it really is not that expensive at all and it is pretty good insurance. Prior to me buying my insurance myself I worked UPS strictly for benefits for my daughter while still working for myself and in school. I guess I have a hard time feeling bad for uninsured when the minute I found out i was going to have a child I went out and searched until i found another job that would give me insurance. The way I see it you do what you have to do to provide even it means working two or three jobs so you can pay for it yourself.

Totally agree, I pay a fee to have my girlfriend on my work insurance. I have freaking insurance on both my dogs which I really can't afford, but seeing a bill for $120 vs $2400 after a dog fight with a Muskrat I make sure by whatever means There insurance is paid every month.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 11:10 AM   #51
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Totally agree, I pay a fee to have my girlfriend on my work insurance. I have freaking insurance on both my dogs which I really can't afford, but seeing a bill for $120 vs $2400 after a dog fight with a Muskrat I make sure by whatever means There insurance is paid every month.
how the fukc can you get your girlfriend on your work insurance? If I was in charge of that company I would put a stop to that shit with the quickness
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Old June 30th, 2012, 05:13 PM   #52
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so let me get this straight...you think the cost will go down?? How about refusal of servce for those that cannot afford it...or better yet, how about a national heath care system ran by the government in the form of government clinics. Where the wait is long, the service is subpar, but its free and paid for by the poeple with jobs. You want free heath care, go to the free clinic. You want good heath care? Get a job. All those doctors that get sued for screwing with the real people should be forced to work the gov clinic as part of their punishment. Or you could have the buttholes that read shit on the internet and think they know more than a doctor...or you could just have a computer that people look their own problems up in the office instead of a doctor.
Nope, never said that.

I like the idea of low cost no frills clinics.
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Old June 30th, 2012, 05:27 PM   #53
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or better yet, how about a national heath care system ran by the government in the form of government clinics. Where the wait is long, the service is subpar....
According to my grandfather who's a vet, we already have that. It's called the VA system, and from what he says the service at the ones he's been to isn't exactly stellar.

As he put it to me, "people want government run health care? Tell them to go to a VA hospital, that will change their mind."
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Old July 1st, 2012, 12:33 PM   #54
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I wonder what the obamacare premiums will be.
If our current healthcare has issues covering medical procedures, but are available if you pay 1/4 of a million up front instead of taking on hospice.
Obamacare will rock.
Every jobless vagrant will now have healthcare and get medical treatment regardless of cost Awesome!
Hope we don't have too many hypochondriacs.
So for the government and medical industry to make a small profit I foresee $500 a month premium per head. Following year when they realize they are going broke $1500 a head
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Old July 1st, 2012, 12:34 PM   #55
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I am just visualizing a worst case scenario
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 10:08 AM   #56
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I'm confused on how they are going to tax you if you don't get insurance but won't make you prove that you are a citizen . . .
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Old July 2nd, 2012, 05:30 PM   #57
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Found a interesting piece on obamacare.

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/02/...-in-obamacare/
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:50 PM   #58
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I am actually pretty confused about Obamacare and its effects. So right now there are 30 million uninsured people. These are people who do not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, they are strictly uninsured. Starting in 2014 these people will be required to buy insurance? Is that really the major change this plan is going to bring? Will I continue to be able to get health insurance through my current and future employers? How is Medicaid and Medicare effected? Is there going to be a government plan offered?
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 02:52 PM   #59
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I am actually pretty confused about Obamacare and its effects. So right now there are 30 million uninsured people. These are people who do not qualify for Medicaid or Medicare, they are strictly uninsured. Starting in 2014 these people will be required to buy insurance? Is that really the major change this plan is going to bring? Will I continue to be able to get health insurance through my current and future employers? How is Medicaid and Medicare effected? Is there going to be a government plan offered?
According to healthcare.gov(obamacare) it will cost your employer too much to cover you and will offer you the alternative(obamacare). At some point health insurence companies will be pushed out completely.
Doctors will stop accepting medicare and medicade patients. If this does all go through as many as 80% of doctors are said to drop out of the medical field.
You can see how socilized medicine works in other countries and expect the same if not worse here.
People will die waiting for simple procedures that we get now rather quickly.
If you do not want to buy health coverage you will be taxed or penalized upon your tax refund check through the IRS.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 03:32 PM   #60
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According to healthcare.gov(obamacare) it will cost your employer too much to cover you and will offer you the alternative(obamacare). At some point health insurence companies will be pushed out completely.
Doctors will stop accepting medicare and medicade patients. If this does all go through as many as 80% of doctors are said to drop out of the medical field.
You can see how socilized medicine works in other countries and expect the same if not worse here.
People will die waiting for simple procedures that we get now rather quickly.
If you do not want to buy health coverage you will be taxed or penalized upon your tax refund check through the IRS.
WOW. you found all that on healthcare.gov?
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