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Old June 28th, 2012, 02:26 PM   #21
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I hate to say it, but I believe that today just about sealed the deal for Obama to get himself re-elected in November. His campaign mantra is going to be "That evil Romney is trying to take away everything I've worked so hard to give you". and all the people with the "gimme gimme gimme my handout" mentality will line right up and cast their votes.
This true. We need to stay pissed off till november. Got a feeling there will be more tea party events in the future.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #22
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The majority of the people don't want it and said it loud and clear. Now the people need to get out and vote in November to get Obama out. Romney may not be the ideal candidate but he is better than who we have now.
Mitt will use this to his advantage to promise to repeal the mandate which I think that is the part that people are upset about.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:16 PM   #23
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In my opinion, if you see the healthcare decision as a straight win or loss, you're really not paying enough attention.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:19 PM   #24
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So when do I get my health insurance?
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #25
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In my opinion, if you see the healthcare decision as a straight win or loss, you're really not paying enough attention.
Well here's the way I see it...It doesn't matter how great the bill is- with the nation facing a $15 trillion dollar+ deficit before Obamacare even kicks in- WE CAN"T AFFORD IT!!! Plain and simple. Even the Fed's own experts have come out and admitted that Obamacare is going to cost billions more than everyone estimated. When Obama was running for president in 2008, his chant was that the previous administration had run the country and the economy into a ditch; well thanks to BHO"s policies and Obamacare, he's thrown it into a bottomless pit and dropped a thermonuclear device in for good measure. Add to it that the SCOTUS has basically said, by upholding the individual mandate, that the Government has the power to tell you what you HAVE to buy, or what you can't buy anymore. Basically the freedoms that the founding fathers fought for all of us to have when this country was created were pissed away today. So yeah, I guess I see it as a loss for the whole country.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 03:42 PM   #26
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Well here's the way I see it...It doesn't matter how great the bill is- with the nation facing a $15 trillion dollar+ deficit before Obamacare even kicks in- WE CAN"T AFFORD IT!!! Plain and simple. Even the Fed's own experts have come out and admitted that Obamacare is going to cost billions more than everyone estimated. When Obama was running for president in 2008, his chant was that the previous administration had run the country and the economy into a ditch; well thanks to BHO"s policies and Obamacare, he's thrown it into a bottomless pit and dropped a thermonuclear device in for good measure. Add to it that the SCOTUS has basically said, by upholding the individual mandate, that the Government has the power to tell you what you HAVE to buy, or what you can't buy anymore. Basically the freedoms that the founding fathers fought for all of us to have when this country was created were pissed away today. So yeah, I guess I see it as a loss for the whole country.
x2
If this law is allowed to continue on it's course you will have long waits to see your doctor if you can find one taking new patients.
Any medical procedures needed to be done, take a number and get in line, and oh ya wait.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #27
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Yeah and how is that working out for them? Not so great. This thing only went through because the HC premiums were called a tax in this bill. The Bamster,the dude who promised "unprecedented transparency", told the public this was not a tax. Down with this tyrant!
According to most studies, better than here.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
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Old June 28th, 2012, 06:15 PM   #28
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According to most studies, better than here.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
I mean economically speaking. Didn't see that on your link. My unborn grand kids are in debt as it is, now we add this. Not to mention the way this thing became law.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:13 PM   #29
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I mean economically speaking. Didn't see that on your link. My unborn grand kids are in debt as it is, now we add this. Not to mention the way this thing became law.
Maybe if we weren't spending a higher percent of our GDP on health care than almost anyplace else (http://www.photius.com/rankings/tota...0_to_2005.html) we wouldn't be so far in debt.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #30
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Medicare v2.0, buckle up.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 08:16 PM   #31
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According to most studies, better than here.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Yeah, just wait until this wondrous plan takes away the almighty motivation($$$) from the people who are in charge of keeping you healthy and inventing new cures and procedures...

Lets see how awesome our ranking is when being a cutting edge heart surgeon is as lucrative as being the guy serving you fries...
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Old June 28th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #32
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...or other programs such as corporate welfare or handing money out to countries that hate us or collecting taxes from the non- payers (40% of those eligible pay their taxes) or release permits to drill for domestic oil and collect taxes from them or quit giving money to producers of out of demand products such as solar panels, Solendra comes to mind. plenty of things we can cut back on but were not, socialized medical coverage is too far. My biggest problems are the way this bill was forced into law and we will be forced to buy insurance. I'm not against helping the medically uninsured but this is tyranny.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 09:17 PM   #33
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People celebrating who have no freaking clue what is going on. Now we must behave as directed, or be penalized. OBAMA LIED! HE SAID IT WASN'T A TAX. He rejected this in the media over and over, that it is not and will not be a tax. IT IS! Supreme Court just told us what is in it.
So they had to pass it, to see what was in it. As long as health insurance companies last they will collect the tax. INSURANCE PREMIUMS HAVE NOW BEEN CALLED A TAX!
The Govt. is forcing people to spend money, how is that not a tax increase?!?
Well STOCKS down after the announcement of the VOTE, the economy remains a disasters. Economy will continue to go down and taxes continue to go up...is that what you want? Contemplate that. NOVEMBER IS COMING!!!! WE STILL HAVE THE POWER TO VOTE! SO USE IT in NOVEMBER! I love this country, I love the people, but there are individuals that need to be voted out.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #34
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Old June 28th, 2012, 09:34 PM   #35
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People celebrating who have no freaking clue what is going on. Now we must behave as directed, or be penalized. OBAMA LIED! HE SAID IT WASN'T A TAX. He rejected this in the media over and over, that it is not and will not be a tax. IT IS! Supreme Court just told us what is in it.
So they had to pass it, to see what was in it. As long as health insurance companies last they will collect the tax. INSURANCE PREMIUMS HAVE NOW BEEN CALLED A TAX!
The Govt. is forcing people to spend money, how is that not a tax increase?!?
Well STOCKS down after the announcement of the VOTE, the economy remains a disasters. Economy will continue to go down and taxes continue to go up...is that what you want? Contemplate that. NOVEMBER IS COMING!!!! WE STILL HAVE THE POWER TO VOTE! SO USE IT in NOVEMBER! I love this country, I love the people, but there are individuals that need to be voted out.
Amen on the vote in Nov.
the supremes upheld this law on the technicality that the penalty for not purchasing insurance is called a "tax" most of them did not agree with this law but upheld it because they could not rule against a tax. this "victory" will most certainly galvanize the right behind Romney just like it did a conservative congress in 2010.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 10:00 PM   #36
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We spend the most of any nation on health care and don't have the best outcomes. We are not the best nation when it comes to life expectancy, infant mortality, cancer, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, etc. Something has to be done and I for one think this is a step in the right direction. Personally I would rather see a universal, single-payer system, but any small incremental step is an improvement.

I look at is an economic argument. We lose so much money to lost productivity each year because folks who may be working full time but do not have health insurance avoid seeing the doctor when they need to early on and wait until the last minute to go to the ER because they know they will get treated. At that point they are utilizing more services than they would have needed to if they would have just being able to get help early on which ends up costing the hospitals, health care organizations, and taxpayers more in the long run. Basically, we are going to end up paying for those who cannot pay for themselves one way or another, I'd rather do it early when it's less expensive, more efficient, and is easier to achieve healthier outcomes.

The arguments that nobody is going to want to become a doctor or existing doctors are just going to pack up and head to another country are just downright retarded. First, being a doctor is going to continue to be a very good career and many folks will continue to pursue it because they want to go into the profession because they want to make a difference (the vast majority of them I'm willing to wager). Second, where are existing doctors who don't like our system going to go to? Any industrialized nation that has patients that can afford to pay their desired fees already has universal healthcare or some sort of government mandated system in place. The nations that don't have that in place don't have the incomes to support the fees the doctors would be leaving here in search of.

As for the "Obama lied! He said this wasn't a tax!" argument - Tax? Fee? Penalty? It's all semantics. You've been paying taxes in the form of "fees" for years. Your license plate renewal fee is a tax. If you pay a fee for a building permit that's a tax.

Will it be repealed if Romney gets elected? I doubt it. But if that's what our legislators really believe is best, than so be it. Personally, I hope if he does get elected in November and does attempt to repeal it, he offers some sort of replacement at the same time. I'll just have to wait and see.
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Old June 28th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #37
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An interesting take.

Quote:
Chief Justice Roberts Is A Genius

Before you look to do harm to Chief Justice Roberts or his family, it’s important that you think carefully about the meaning – the true nature — of his ruling on Obama-care. The Left will shout that they won, that Obama-care was upheld and all the rest. Let them.

It will be a short-lived celebration.

Here’s what really occurred — payback. Yes, payback for Obama’s numerous, ill-advised and childish insults directed toward SCOTUS.

Chief Justice Roberts actually ruled the mandate, relative to the commerce clause, was unconstitutional. That’s how the Democrats got Obama-care going in the first place. This is critical. His ruling means Congress can’t compel American citizens to purchase anything. Ever. The notion is now officially and forever, unconstitutional. As it should be.

Next, he stated that, because Congress doesn’t have the ability to mandate, it must, to fund Obama-care, rely on its power to tax. Therefore, the mechanism that funds Obama-care is a tax. This is also critical. Recall back during the initial Obama-care battles, the Democrats called it a penalty, Republicans called it a tax. Democrats consistently soft sold it as a penalty. It went to vote as a penalty. Obama declared endlessly, that it was not a tax, it was a penalty. But when the Democrats argued in front of the Supreme Court, they said ‘hey, a penalty or a tax, either way’. So, Roberts gave them a tax. It is now the official law of the land — beyond word-play and silly shenanigans. Obama-care is funded by tax dollars. Democrats now must defend a tax increase to justify the Obama-care law.

Finally, he struck down as unconstitutional, the Obama-care idea that the federal government can bully states into complying by yanking their existing medicaid funding. Liberals, through Obama-care, basically said to the states — ‘comply with Obama-care or we will stop existing funding.’ Roberts ruled that is a no-no. If a state takes the money, fine, the Feds can tell the state how to run a program, but if the state refuses money, the federal government can’t penalize the state by yanking other funding. Therefore, a state can decline to participate in Obama-care without penalty. This is obviously a serious problem. Are we going to have 10, 12, 25 states not participating in “national” health-care? Suddenly, it’s not national, is it?

Ultimately, Roberts supported states rights by limiting the federal government’s coercive abilities. He ruled that the government can not force the people to purchase products or services under the commerce clause and he forced liberals to have to come clean and admit that Obama-care is funded by tax increases.

Although he didn’t guarantee Romney a win, he certainly did more than his part and should be applauded.

And he did this without creating a civil war or having bricks thrown through his windshield. Oh, and he’ll be home in time for dinner.

Brilliant.
http://whitehouse12.com/2012/06/28/c...s-is-a-genius/
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #38
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for those that think this means a slam-dunk for obama - by no means is it.

it re-energized conservatives that were not crazy about Romney, it re-energized the tea-party by publicly affirming that the "largest tax in crease in history" was pushed by the LiberalCrats in 2010.

and as if that wasn't enough for incumbents this fall how about this gem:

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/06/...washin/?a_dgi=


Quote:
the deal that Congress made with itself when it failed to agree on spending cuts earlier this year. Rather than make targeted incisions in the national budget with a scalpel, Congress opted to swing a meat cleaver, and cut both defense and entitlement spending across the board.

Needless to say, America's defense contracting firms were not thrilled with the news. And now, they've decided to do something about it.

Fix the Budget ... or Else


Earlier this month, news began filtering out of the Beltway about a doomsday plan that the contractors were mulling. Unless Congress sat down and agreed on a rational budget plan for 2013, the contractors would proceed under the assumption that sequestration would happen, and defense spending would be cut by some $500 billion over the next decade.

"Fine," said the contractors. (Paraphrasing, of course.) "You don't have to buy our tanks, battleships and warplanes if you don't want to. But if you're not buying them, and we're not building them, then this means we've got a whole lot more workers on the payroll here than we need. And so we're going to start laying them off... in September."

As in, just a few weeks before voters head to the polls in November to re-elect their members of Congress -- or not.

30 Threats Hath September

There's no great mystery behind the timing. As Lockheed Martin (LMT) Chairman Robert Stevens bluntly explained: "It is quite possible that we will need to notify employees in the September and October time frame that they may or may not have a job in January, depending upon whether sequestration does or doesn't take effect." So the threat here is clear: Either Congress must find something else to cut, or right before Election Day, newspaper headlines are going to be filled with news of massive layoff announcements out of Lockheed, General Dynamics (GD), Boeing (BA), Raytheon (RTN), and Northrop Grumman (NOC).


It's hard to overstate how big an effect this could have on employment numbers -- and the election. Combined, these five big defense contractors employ some 527,000 people. With control over so many jobs, it wouldn't take much -- just a layoff of about 14% of the workforce -- to completely obliterate all 69,000 of the jobs America gained in May 2012. Indeed, the situation's even worse than that. As The Wall Street Journal recently pointed out, the five big defense companies are just the tip of the defense industry iceberg. Widen the lens to include the smaller defense shops and suppliers who feed into the industry, and "defense manufacturers and their suppliers employ around 1 million workers combined."

If September's or October's job figures look as bad as what we saw in May, then the defense contractors have the power to single-handedly transform anemic employment growthin America into full-fledged employment decline... at the precise moment when Americans are deciding whom they'll pick for president.

What? Obama? How'd He Get Into This Story?


Not by accident, rest assured. You see, here's the real point of the story: Lockheed, et al may be training their guns at Congress with this threat. Their sole intention in making it may be -- as they claim -- to push Congress to "do something" to fix the budget mess. But members of Congress aren't the only folks going up for re-election in November.

This may come as a surprise to you -- we certainly haven't heard much about it so far this year -- but President Barack Obama is going to be on the ballot, too. So there's a distinct possibility that in the process of trying to embarrass Congress into doing its job, the defense companies may accidentally swing the tide of the election against the incumbent president, and in favor of his rival.
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #39
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Is it really wrong of me that I don't give 2 shits and a fukc about the poor dying on the curb?

Growing up my parents were poor by your average standards. But they were never poor enough to receive governments hand outs, not that they would have taken them anyway. But they instilled good work ethic and all that jazz in me, I got good grades, went to a good college(through student loans that I DO NOT expect you or anyone else to pay back for me), and got a decent job. So now why should I have to shell out more money on top of the tens of thousands of dollars I already do each and every year to further take care of the people that just said, "fuck it i'm gonna go with the flow" and amounted to nothing in life?

This country's downfall will be trying to do too much for everyone. Humans and this country are both fucking specs on the timeline of this world and we haven't even bothered to look at how the rest of the big picture operates. For some reason over the course of a few thousand years, or with our country the past couple hundred years, we think that somehow we can accomplish what nature hasn't for billions of years. To keep everyone fat and happy. It just doesn't happen. If an animal out in the wild has a litter of whatever too big and can only feed 8 of the 10, 2 starve to death. If a pack has a fellow lion that just can't seem to hunt well or keep up it slowly drifts behind and dies in the dust. Cruel as it may be this works and has worked for millions of years...
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Old June 29th, 2012, 12:32 PM   #40
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Is it really wrong of me that I don't give 2 shits and a fukc about the poor dying on the curb?

Growing up my parents were poor by your average standards. But they were never poor enough to receive governments hand outs, not that they would have taken them anyway. But they instilled good work ethic and all that jazz in me, I got good grades, went to a good college(through student loans that I DO NOT expect you or anyone else to pay back for me), and got a decent job. So now why should I have to shell out more money on top of the tens of thousands of dollars I already do each and every year to further take care of the people that just said, "fuck it i'm gonna go with the flow" and amounted to nothing in life?

This country's downfall will be trying to do too much for everyone. Humans and this country are both fucking specs on the timeline of this world and we haven't even bothered to look at how the rest of the big picture operates. For some reason over the course of a few thousand years, or with our country the past couple hundred years, we think that somehow we can accomplish what nature hasn't for billions of years. To keep everyone fat and happy. It just doesn't happen. If an animal out in the wild has a litter of whatever too big and can only feed 8 of the 10, 2 starve to death. If a pack has a fellow lion that just can't seem to hunt well or keep up it slowly drifts behind and dies in the dust. Cruel as it may be this works and has worked for millions of years...
In theory that makes sense........ until.............. it's your newborn child or infant or toddler or 7 year old or teenager who will die without medical help. Trust me, I hate the Obamacare thing as much as anyone but when it comes to your own child, survival of the fittest is the last thing you think of.
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