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Old May 16th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by opie View Post
Perplexing issue, isn't it?

You'd think the Christians would worry about the Catholic priests messing with alter boys, not worrying about what adults are doing in their private lives.

I guess raping young boys is better than homosexuality.
Shit, it's even way beyond that these days.

It seems like every news story you read is more fucked up than the last.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #162
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Perplexing issue, isn't it?

You'd think the Christians would worry about the Catholic priests messing with alter boys, not worrying about what adults are doing in their private lives.

I guess raping young boys is better than homosexuality.
Yea no shit.
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I am not a lesbian but if I was I would do her.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 08:06 PM   #163
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Scott - In my experience, I've never labeled an unpleasant "god-fearing" person as Christian: They usually announce it soon after meeting them.
True.

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You see.....this is where you lose all ability to argue.
God did not write the bible, man did.
Interpretations..........they are a mother fucker.
Actually, If you understood what some of believe, you'd realize that it's part of our faith to believe that the authors of the bible were led by God to write what they did. Just look at all the books of the Prophets. Interpretation is one thing, but there are alot of Verses that, when in context, are hard to interpret any other way then what it says.

If you don't want to believe it is the holy, God breathed word of God, that's fine. But to most of us Christians, it is.


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And those interpretations are what Christians have been unquestioningly following for hundreds of years. Kinda scary actually.
Unquestioningly? Really? Jesus Questioned his holy leaders and thier interpretations, Luther did so with his letter to the church, starting the protestant movement and, through that, started the end of a State run Church in Europe.

We are told to question, and are often questioned by people (like here), about our faith. It may not work for you right now, that's fine. But for those of us who do believe we also question. I'm a pastors son, I'm supposed to be "the perfect one" but I question my beleifs everyday. Most of the time, Those doubts lead to further study of God's word and strengthen what I believe. I've had countless conversations on here and, contrary to what Nuggets says, I have changed my opinion on things because of it.

I think you'll find your self sorely dissapointed if you continue to assume that All Christians are sheep and don't do any study for them selves. If you had the ability to know the God of the Universe and all you had to do was study a book, would you? How could you not? That's what Christians are called to do.


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God talks to me personally almost daily. He has told me that most of the Bible contains allegorys but is not really the direct word of God. He said he had some major issues with the monks where transcribing the Bible getting their information mixed up. He also said that during the Dark Ages, the people running the Catholic church were more in love with the power of control than God. He told me that things really got wacky with the Bible when they translated it from Latin to other languages.
---------

So it didn't get wacky when it was translated from Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic?


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God has told me that he just wants everybody to get along. I asked him about gays and gay marriage and he said he could care less who marries who as long as they love each other and are good people at heart.



Confused by what God was telling me and what the Bible says, I asked God about the many contradictions in the Bible. God says the Bible is that way because corrupt men who only valued power and control were telling people certain things about God so they could maintain control. These lies were written down and eventually considered fact. God said almost all of the information in the Bible is corrupt this way.
That's great and all, but how do the early scripts of those scriptures still line up with the most recent ones? If the bible was corrupt wouldn't there be differences in those Scriptures?

The bible is one of the most Documented books ever. Weather it's from corrupt men being...well...men and corrupt or by people saving scripture they thought was sacred, it's still there. They have ancient scrolls that date back and prove that what was written then is what you see now. There are people that spend thier whole life translating the bible from the earliest Scripts we have. Corruption free!


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Finally, I asked God about people who take all the information in the Bible as Fact. He said man has developed the scientific method of verifying information and man should use this tool to find out the truth.

So there ya go, God's original intentions. Before you write this off as bullshit, I'll just say I bet you can't prove God didn't say this to me.
I can't prove he didn't say these things to you. True. You can't prove that he did though. That what 'he' said is true. Or that it was actually Yahweh and not some other spirit trying to confuse you.



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Originally Posted by opie View Post
Perplexing issue, isn't it?

You'd think the Christians would worry about the Catholic priests messing with alter boys, not worrying about what adults are doing in their private lives.

I guess raping young boys is better than homosexuality.
Ah yes, The "Catholic priests raping boys" defense. Is this slowly going to replace the "What about the Crusades" Montra? Seriously?

What they do is horrible. Personally, I think they should fry for it. It's not up to me though. They do not reflect the majority of Christianity though.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #164
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Ah yes, The "Catholic priests raping boys" defense. Is this slowly going to replace the "What about the Crusades" Montra? Seriously?

What they do is horrible. Personally, I think they should fry for it. It's not up to me though. They do not reflect the majority of Christianity though.
I was just throwing a zinger...

However, silence is a powerful word. We hear more about the wrongs of homosexuality from those of faith than we hear of the molestation of young boys. Hence, homosexuality must be a bigger sin.

Wait... Male priests molesting young boys.......
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Old May 16th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #165
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I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
It's not a big concern. It's a big distraction, a wedge issue meant to divide the red team and the blue team, and distract them all from the real issues of this election cycle like 22% unemployment, $1.5 trillion per year deficits, and the looming destruction of the dollar in the world market.

This thread is evidence that the distraction is working as planned.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 09:16 PM   #166
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I was just throwing a zinger...

However, silence is a powerful word. We hear more about the wrongs of homosexuality from those of faith than we hear of the molestation of young boys. Hence, homosexuality must be a bigger sin.

Wait... Male priests molesting young boys.......
There is no such thing as a "bigger sin" That idea is from the same Denomination that has the issue with Molesting boys.

Personally, when I'm talking about my faith I just talk about sin in general. We all have sin, homosexual, heterosexual, candy cane fetishie....you name it. God is not interested in the sin. Why woudl he be? He's already taken care of it. He's concerned for the people that are still rejecting him. If only believers would share that concern instead of what sins are worse or better. Unfortunately, we don't.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 10:03 PM   #167
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I can't prove he didn't say these things to you. True. You can't prove that he did though. That what 'he' said is true. Or that it was actually Yahweh and not some other spirit trying to confuse you.
I have proof. God told me it is true.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 11:02 PM   #168
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I have proof. God told me it is true.
I see what you're doing there.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 05:54 AM   #169
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I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
I'd really like to hear aber or L4CX's opinions on this one.

I'm just curious as to why the faithful in this country seem to just zero in relentlessly on gays when there is sooooooooooooooooo much more incredibly horrible, fucked up shit going on every single day.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:03 AM   #170
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I agree but we are talking in this thread like all of the churches think alike and I wanted to point out that even they don't have their ducks in a row.
I see what you're saying - but saying "Church" is like saying "American": It is a general definition at best. :)
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Old May 17th, 2012, 06:47 AM   #171
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I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
Think of it this way:

There are many reasons for hate / fear / whatever, but let's focus on the issue of religion (with respect to Christianity), and apply some logic:

1. Christians have faith and believe in God.
2. The Bible and its interpretation (through self / church / family) is a large part of a Christian's "Instruction Manual" for life. (yes, incredibly generalized, but not meant to be insulting in any way)
3. Within the Bible, many things are written; two I will use in this explanation are:
a) The story of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the general "proof" that God has defined homosexuality as sin.
b) The Bible teaches the Christian that part of being a good Christian is to love others and share their knowledge of God with others, so that those other people may come to know God and his love.
4. Christians who speak out against homosexuality (in this logical example) are not casting judgement on homosexuality, but rather, speaking to their specific sin and trying to "help" gays stop sinning and find God.

Simple.

Now, what fucks everything up with this logic is that a lot of people fear what they don't understand. That fear can turn to hate, and that hate can hide behind many a facade - and a big one IS religion. This is not accusing *any* Christian of hate, rather, just pointing out one thing.

But wait - there's more!

Christians wouldn't seem so damned pushy and insistent if folks would back off a bit about Jesus being a zombie, the Bible being the best selling work of fiction, et. al. I know - a lot of responses are a function of giving what you get with some folks, but us "Non-Christians" could take some of our own advice and just calm the fukc down.

Anyway, that's how I feel.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 07:09 AM   #172
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Perplexing issue, isn't it?

You'd think the Christians would worry about the Catholic priests messing with alter boys, not worrying about what adults are doing in their private lives.

I guess raping young boys is better than homosexuality.
Christians != Catholics.

And have you given any thought as to why there seems to be so much molestation among the priesthood? Care to read my theory?

First of all, not all priests molest / rape children: for every one we hear about, (though I'm sure there are more that are not caught) there are THOUSANDS who do NOT molest boys. But as a profession, it seems like there is more than their fare share, and the type of transgression is quite ironic. Or, is it?

Think of a young man, raised to know and love God: Upon reaching puberty, this young man finds he is attracted to other men and not at all interested in women. He knows in his heart how he feels, and he knows it is quite a sin in the lord's eyes. So, instead of sinning with other men, he makes a vow to the lord and becomes a priest. Perfect rationalization: "I can remain celibate and serve God - and maybe - he will grant me the strength to keep from sin."
So the priest grows older and lonelier, meanwhile, he has not lost strength and succumbed to his true feelings for other men. He is part of a church, knows and loves his "flock" and helps many in the community. Let's not forget, not for a moment, that a priest is still a man - and after many years of celibacy - starts the shenanigans among the some of the young boys he supervises, often alone.

This man's only failing to this point was being human and trying to the best he could not to sin and to serve God. It's very sad. This is not to say that some priests are dirtbags / predators intentionally maneuvering to molest kids, statistics tells us it must exist too. But to denounce all Catholic priests as child molesters is no better than the crap Fred Phelps spews whenever there is a chance.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #173
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Posts # 171 & 172 by Scooter.

Awesome thought process & very well put.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:15 AM   #174
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I'd really like to hear aber or L4CX's opinions on this one.

I'm just curious as to why the faithful in this country seem to just zero in relentlessly on gays when there is sooooooooooooooooo much more incredibly horrible, fucked up shit going on every single day.
Ok, I will give my opinion on this. It's not so much that the "faithful" put so much attention on this issue, its the pressure the gay community and everybody else that goes along with them saying "why not." It's not that bad, they just want to be normal like the rest of society. To the rest of society it's not normal. Gay people tend to be so much in your face with homosexuality. You don't see married couples have parades down the street celebrating thier togetherness. It would not be such a huge deal if they would have stayed in the closet, so to speak. I don't hate gay people, I think what they are doing is not the way to live a healthy life. Their are people that have come out of that lifestyle and go around the country speaking out the dangers of it.
Scooter has a great comment on this topic.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #175
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Ok, I will give my opinion on this. It's not so much that the "faithful" put so much attention on this issue, its the pressure the gay community and everybody else that goes along with them saying "why not." It's not that bad, they just want to be normal like the rest of society. To the rest of society it's not normal. Gay people tend to be so much in your face with homosexuality. You don't see married couples have parades down the street celebrating thier togetherness. It would not be such a huge deal if they would have stayed in the closet, so to speak. I don't hate gay people, I think what they are doing is not the way to live a healthy life. Their are people that have come out of that lifestyle and go around the country speaking out the dangers of it.
Scooter has a great comment on this topic.
The other day we were in line at the grocery store and a male/female couple were making out in front of us.

I guess my point is that with so much evil in this world like the senseless crimes you see on the news every single day why is so much attention paid to what two willing people want to do to each other?
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:31 AM   #176
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I guess my point is that with so much evil in this world like the senseless crimes you see on the news every single day why is so much attention paid to what two willing people want to do to each other?
Most devout Christians believe that sin is sin. Whether it be homosexuality, lust, greed, murder, theft, gluttony.

That being said, those few that are honest with themselves also know and believe that their own sins are just as condemnable as the ones that gather all of the publicity. You usually don't hear much from them in terms of being on TV, in the press, or "marching and waving banners".
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Think of it this way:

There are many reasons for hate / fear / whatever, but let's focus on the issue of religion (with respect to Christianity), and apply some logic:

1. Christians have faith and believe in God.
2. The Bible and its interpretation (through self / church / family) is a large part of a Christian's "Instruction Manual" for life. (yes, incredibly generalized, but not meant to be insulting in any way)
3. Within the Bible, many things are written; two I will use in this explanation are:
a) The story of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the general "proof" that God has defined homosexuality as sin.
b) The Bible teaches the Christian that part of being a good Christian is to love others and share their knowledge of God with others, so that those other people may come to know God and his love.
4. Christians who speak out against homosexuality (in this logical example) are not casting judgement on homosexuality, but rather, speaking to their specific sin and trying to "help" gays stop sinning and find God.

Simple.

Now, what fucks everything up with this logic is that a lot of people fear what they don't understand. That fear can turn to hate, and that hate can hide behind many a facade - and a big one IS religion. This is not accusing *any* Christian of hate, rather, just pointing out one thing.

But wait - there's more!

Christians wouldn't seem so damned pushy and insistent if folks would back off a bit about Jesus being a zombie, the Bible being the best selling work of fiction, et. al. I know - a lot of responses are a function of giving what you get with some folks, but us "Non-Christians" could take some of our own advice and just calm the fukc down.

Anyway, that's how I feel.
Very well put for a non-believeing guy. There is hope for you yet Scooter

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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Christians != Catholics.

And have you given any thought as to why there seems to be so much molestation among the priesthood? Care to read my theory?

First of all, not all priests molest / rape children: for every one we hear about, (though I'm sure there are more that are not caught) there are THOUSANDS who do NOT molest boys. But as a profession, it seems like there is more than their fare share, and the type of transgression is quite ironic. Or, is it?

Think of a young man, raised to know and love God: Upon reaching puberty, this young man finds he is attracted to other men and not at all interested in women. He knows in his heart how he feels, and he knows it is quite a sin in the lord's eyes. So, instead of sinning with other men, he makes a vow to the lord and becomes a priest. Perfect rationalization: "I can remain celibate and serve God - and maybe - he will grant me the strength to keep from sin."
So the priest grows older and lonelier, meanwhile, he has not lost strength and succumbed to his true feelings for other men. He is part of a church, knows and loves his "flock" and helps many in the community. Let's not forget, not for a moment, that a priest is still a man - and after many years of celibacy - starts the shenanigans among the some of the young boys he supervises, often alone.

This man's only failing to this point was being human and trying to the best he could not to sin and to serve God. It's very sad. This is not to say that some priests are dirtbags / predators intentionally maneuvering to molest kids, statistics tells us it must exist too. But to denounce all Catholic priests as child molesters is no better than the crap Fred Phelps spews whenever there is a chance.
Great piece. I do think that many priests that are striaght should be allowed to marry if they want.
Paul talks on this about serving the Lord but if one cannot control thier emotions then they need to marry a women. I will try and find that passage.
It is really wrong for priests to hide among the Catholic church to prey on young boys for thier own sadistic pleasure.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #178
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In your opinion. It's not your job to tell others how to behave.
I am not telling other how to behave, it's my opinion.
Scooter put together a great comment on this.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 09:58 AM   #179
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Ok, I will give my opinion on this. It's not so much that the "faithful" put so much attention on this issue, its the pressure the gay community and everybody else that goes along with them saying "why not." It's not that bad, they just want to be normal like the rest of society. To the rest of society it's not normal. Gay people tend to be so much in your face with homosexuality. You don't see married couples have parades down the street celebrating thier togetherness. It would not be such a huge deal if they would have stayed in the closet, so to speak. I don't hate gay people, I think what they are doing is not the way to live a healthy life. Their are people that have come out of that lifestyle and go around the country speaking out the dangers of it.
Scooter has a great comment on this topic.
There's a bit that's off with some of what you state - to me, anyway. I would be willing to bet that the homosexuals you see in gay pride demonstrations or "...tend to be so much in your face with homosexuality" are not the norm of the gay community -- such in the way that Child molesting priests, Fred Phelps and Televangelists are not the norm of the religious community.

To the comment of "Staying in the closet" - though you may not be able to get your head around it (not saying this as an insult, as you're openly sharing your feelings and I have an idea of how you think about a few areas):

Think about if something that was a part of who you are was considered socially unacceptable by the majority. Something that was a part of the person you are to the core - where, in some instances, can get you ridiculed, beaten or even killed. Of course, I'm going to "pick on" your religion because I know how strong a religious faith you project in writing.

Imagine how Christians would feel if the U.S.A. was taken over by Muslim Fundamentalists. No, I'm not comparing Christian views on homosexuality to the violence you'll find with some other religions - I'm just trying to create as stark and familiar feelings of how impossible for you to hide your love for God.
Anyway, think about going out in public - always being on guard, watching what you say, what you do. Never being able to truly & fully relax - to be who you are - just because you are different than the majority.

Remember - I am not trying to sway your opinions on homosexuality or convince you to accept it - I am only using your words to show you how you may not be giving much open thought to the issue.
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Old May 17th, 2012, 10:05 AM   #180
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Is this thread still going on.........

Man we post a lot about non-sense.

Here's my 0.2 cents. I don't like the Idea of same sex unions, using a Biblical word, to "politically correct" and change the meaning of this word given to us by God. But I cant stop it. There doesn't need to be legislation on a "Word" description.

However, if you are going to allow "two people" to "marry" (as quoted by another post in this thread) why stop there? Do you have too many scruples to stop a man and a donkey from getting married, or lets say a Great Dane and a Woman, or a piglet and a rooster,..........and so on, and so on.

This whole scenario is a "boarderline" waste of time.
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