Same Sex Marriage? - Page 8 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 16th, 2012, 11:41 AM   #141
Sol Goode
Obama Nation!
 
Sol Goode's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Curt1656 & Scooters love castle
Posts: 14,414
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
According to Christians it is God who says it is wrong to have same sex attractions.
Is having a different opinion judging? If so why do you judge me for having a different opinion.



It's not judging. You must be having feelings of conviction and guilt and the only way you can feel ok with yourself is to blame the Christians for your sin.



Nobody is persecuting anybody. If having a different opinion is persecution then you need to see what happens to gay people in the muslim world.



^^^^^ this
You see.....this is where you lose all ability to argue.
God did not write the bible, man did.
Interpretations..........they are a mother fucker.
__________________
#YOLO
#meballsohard
Sol Goode is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old May 16th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #142
mschaffer66
Senior Member
 
mschaffer66's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 9,231
iTrader: (17)
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Goode View Post
You see.....this is where you lose all ability to argue.
God did not write the bible, man did.
Interpretations..........they are a mother fucker.
And those interpretations are what Christians have been unquestioningly following for hundreds of years. Kinda scary actually.
mschaffer66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 12:22 PM   #143
kerryann
German cars are hot
 
kerryann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield
Posts: 11,441
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

I keep reading that "the church" doesn't support a homosexual lifestyle, but while that is a large portion of the "religious people" it is not everyone. There are churches where being homosexual is accepted.
scroll down to the chart:
List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality
kerryann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 02:01 PM   #144
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,555
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryann View Post
I keep reading that "the church" doesn't support a homosexual lifestyle, but while that is a large portion of the "religious people" it is not everyone. There are churches where being homosexual is accepted.
scroll down to the chart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homosexuality
Thing is - anyone religious will quote the Bible, and show how god said it is wrong - and that those "churches" sin in the eyes of the lord.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 02:04 PM   #145
kerryann
German cars are hot
 
kerryann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield
Posts: 11,441
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Thing is - anyone religious will quote the Bible, and show how god said it is wrong - and that those "churches" sin in the eyes of the lord.
I agree but we are talking in this thread like all of the churches think alike and I wanted to point out that even they don't have their ducks in a row.
kerryann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 02:12 PM   #146
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,109
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
Your first statement is arrogant and incorrect. This nation was founded under the idea of religious freedom (including the choice of no religion). You will not find anything that mentions Jesus Christ in any of the originating documents and I don't think you will find anything that mentions God. The founding fathers refered to "Natures Law" when refering to a higher power when penning the originating documents. Also, proof of the Bible being used as a textbook in early classrooms or it didn't happen. Note: pulling "facts" from a uber Christian bullshit site doesn't coun't.
Your statement is the incorrect one. You will need to brush up on your history about how this country was formed. Look up original documents from our founding fathers. Personal writings from our founding fathers tell a completely different story. You will need to show proof about NOT using the bible as school text books. Did you know that our founding fathers were actually in the business of printing bibles.
You can find proof in the library of congress which is the same place uber Christian bs site gets it's info from.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #147
Scott2.0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-26-12
Location: Berkley
Posts: 197
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I was told by one of the Ned Flanders types to use Google, so I did.

"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments."

Regardless of whether you believe the nation was founded by Christians, etc., it was certainly founded upon FREEDOM. No one can argue that, nor should they. Why would anyone want to deny another American the freedom to live their lives as they see fit? Everyone is entitled to their own values and beliefs, just don't let those spill over into other peoples' lives.
Scott2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #148
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,109
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2.0 View Post
I was told by one of the Ned Flanders types to use Google, so I did.

"The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity.

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments."

Regardless of whether you believe the nation was founded by Christians, etc., it was certainly founded upon FREEDOM. No one can argue that, nor should they. Why would anyone want to deny another American the freedom to live their lives as they see fit? Everyone is entitled to their own values and beliefs, just don't let those spill over into other peoples' lives.
I do not see where Christians are attempting to rewrite history nor force religious beliefs on anybody. By keeping people informed of our history is not rewriting, but omitting history from school text books is rewriting history and the left is guilty of doing just that.
As for sharing the word of God with others is not forcing anybody to convert people. You have the ability to turn off the radio, TV or put your fingers in your ears and that is your choice and that is the freedom you talk about.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #149
Nuggets
I fix stuff!
 
Nuggets's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-15-06
Location: Bay City, MI
Posts: 13,438
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

God talks to me personally almost daily. He has told me that most of the Bible contains allegorys but is not really the direct word of God. He said he had some major issues with the monks where transcribing the Bible getting their information mixed up. He also said that during the Dark Ages, the people running the Catholic church were more in love with the power of control than God. He told me that things really got wacky with the Bible when they translated it from Latin to other languages.

God has told me that he just wants everybody to get along. I asked him about gays and gay marriage and he said he could care less who marries who as long as they love each other and are good people at heart.

Confused by what God was telling me and what the Bible says, I asked God about the many contradictions in the Bible. God says the Bible is that way because corrupt men who only valued power and control were telling people certain things about God so they could maintain control. These lies were written down and eventually considered fact. God said almost all of the information in the Bible is corrupt this way.

Finally, I asked God about people who take all the information in the Bible as Fact. He said man has developed the scientific method of verifying information and man should use this tool to find out the truth.

So there ya go, God's original intentions. Before you write this off as bullshit, I'll just say I bet you can't prove God didn't say this to me.
Nuggets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 04:55 PM   #150
Scott2.0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-26-12
Location: Berkley
Posts: 197
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
As for sharing the word of God with others is not forcing anybody to convert people. You have the ability to turn off the radio, TV or put your fingers in your ears and that is your choice and that is the freedom you talk about.
Just as you have the ability to look the other way should you see a gay couple (gasp!). By taking a stance that prohibits people from living their own lives the way they want, you are forcing your beliefs upon them.
Scott2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 05:30 PM   #151
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 817
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
According to Christians it is God who says it is wrong to have same sex attractions.
Not everyone is a Christian.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Is having a different opinion judging?
It is when your opinion is based on religion and you are using that religion to try to tell others how to live. If your religion says homosexuality and gay marriage is wrong, then do not partake in those behaviors. But leave everyone else alone. By telling anyone else they are doing it wrong, you are by definition passing judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
If so why do you judge me for having a different opinion.
Because your opinion is based on religious text and not everyone subscribes to your religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
It's not judging. You must be having feelings of conviction and guilt and the only way you can feel ok with yourself is to blame the Christians for your sin.
It is judging....

Quote:
judg·ment
noun \ˈjəj-mənt\
Definition of JUDGMENT
1
a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced
2
a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree
3
a capitalized : the final judging of humankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God
4
a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed
5
a : the capacity for judging : discernment b : the exercise of this capacity
6
: a proposition stating something believed or asserted
See judgment defined for English-language learners »
See judgment defined for kids »
Conviction, yes. I want everyone to be able to live as they see fit within the confines of the rights granted to them by the Constitution.

Guilt, only for not standing up more for those oppressed by the religious fanatics here in America. Go practice your religion and live your life as you see fit and stay out of anyone elses business that has not expressed an interest in your opinion.

Sin. No one died for my sins. Yet you again seem to want to judge me based on the confines of what your religion considers sin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
Nobody is persecuting anybody. If having a different opinion is persecution then you need to see what happens to gay people in the muslim world.
But you are. We broke from religious tyranny because everyone's life and how they lived it was dictated by the church. Now the religious fanatics here in America seem to want to dictate all morality from the bible and attempt to legislate that morality.

Dont agree with gay marriage? Dont marry someone of the same sex. But leave anyone else that choose differently alone.

Dont agree with abortion or birth control? Then dont have one and dont use it. But leave anyone else that chooses differently alone.

Stop lobbying the Government with money, bribes and votes to legislate your version of morality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
^^^^^ this
Agreed.

Last edited by opie; May 16th, 2012 at 05:35 PM.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:00 PM   #152
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post

It's not judging. You must be having feelings of conviction and guilt and the only way you can feel ok with yourself is to blame the Christians for your sin.


You know, you're right, Christian Hypocrisy is simply a manifestation of my own self hatred.

You are an idiot and simply don't get it, don't think you ever will.
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #153
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,109
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuggets View Post
God talks to me personally almost daily. He has told me that most of the Bible contains allegorys but is not really the direct word of God. He said he had some major issues with the monks where transcribing the Bible getting their information mixed up. He also said that during the Dark Ages, the people running the Catholic church were more in love with the power of control than God. He told me that things really got wacky with the Bible when they translated it from Latin to other languages.

God has told me that he just wants everybody to get along. I asked him about gays and gay marriage and he said he could care less who marries who as long as they love each other and are good people at heart.

Confused by what God was telling me and what the Bible says, I asked God about the many contradictions in the Bible. God says the Bible is that way because corrupt men who only valued power and control were telling people certain things about God so they could maintain control. These lies were written down and eventually considered fact. God said almost all of the information in the Bible is corrupt this way.

Finally, I asked God about people who take all the information in the Bible as Fact. He said man has developed the scientific method of verifying information and man should use this tool to find out the truth.

So there ya go, God's original intentions. Before you write this off as bullshit, I'll just say I bet you can't prove God didn't say this to me.
Satan comes as an angel of light. You better test the spirit you are getting it from. Just saying.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #154
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,109
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2.0 View Post
Just as you have the ability to look the other way should you see a gay couple (gasp!). By taking a stance that prohibits people from living their own lives the way they want, you are forcing your beliefs upon them.
The anthem for Hell is "I did it my way!"
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #155
Scott2.0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-26-12
Location: Berkley
Posts: 197
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
The anthem for Hell is "I did it my way!"
In your opinion. It's not your job to tell others how to behave.
Scott2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #156
jeepinRRT
Senior Member
 
jeepinRRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-13-08
Location: Grand Rapids,MI
Posts: 3,627
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott2.0 View Post
In your opinion. It's not your job to tell others how to behave.
Sure it is, he's a "Christian" hypocrite who preaches about how "sinful" others are, but in doing so misses his own "transgressions".
jeepinRRT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:30 PM   #157
Scott2.0
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 03-26-12
Location: Berkley
Posts: 197
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepinRRT View Post
Sure it is, he's a "Christian" hypocrite who preaches about how "sinful" others are, but in doing so misses his own "transgressions".
Oh yeah, you're right. Maybe we should pick a random book to live our lives by and try to get others to conform to what it says, and when they don't, we'll throw quotes from this book at them as if they mean anything.
Scott2.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #158
kerryann
German cars are hot
 
kerryann's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield
Posts: 11,441
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

I just had a briliant thought.. potentially half delirious from a picker bush attack.. but since most marriages are sexless anyway, we could be potentially helping them NOT sin any longer.
kerryann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #159
mschaffer66
Senior Member
 
mschaffer66's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 9,231
iTrader: (17)
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Default

I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
mschaffer66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 16th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #160
opie
www.krissplicing.com
 
Join Date: 07-21-08
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 817
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
I just don't really get why this is such a big deal. Its two people, that apparently love each other, want to commit to each other, typically live nice quiet, tidy lives. Then we have massive divorce rates, spousal abuse, child abuse, on top of all of the other fucked up things in this world.

I just don't see how two gay people is a big concern and the big hot bed of controversy when the rest of this world is beyond fucked in almost every single aspect.
Perplexing issue, isn't it?

You'd think the Christians would worry about the Catholic priests messing with alter boys, not worrying about what adults are doing in their private lives.

I guess raping young boys is better than homosexuality.
opie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.46893 seconds with 83 queries