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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
fuck that bullshit...nice excuse...how about you pick up the bill for this...after all wouldn't it feel good to spend your money on returning a child to his family?
I did and so did you deal with it.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #62
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Did I? Not that I can remember. Nothing stands out. Call bullshit if you want but I can't give you a better answer. I can tell you that I would have caught shit for it if I did.
My daughters? Nope, the first time I had an issue with my daughter where she left for a couple days she was 18 or 19 years old. No, we never called the police. We contacted her friends, who a couple were covering for her but we basically said if you hear from her, we want to talk. I knew why and when she left and realized that it would work out. Did either of my kids sneak out? Maybe. But I can't think of a time where they ran away. Threaten? Yes. I offered to help pack their bags.

Now, I realize I am talking about a 19 year old young adult and not a 12 year old punk kid. But, I also have to believe that he didn't just up and run away. I suspect the parents had a pretty good idea, especially since ryebread said he has gone missing before. This is not the first time so it should not be a panic for the parents.

Call the police? yes
Call out every resourse right away? Not so sure
That's fair, and I don't disagree with you. Yeah he was a repeat offender, so I am guessing as you mentioned they had an inkling as to what was going on. I never "ran away" I was too afraid to do so, I did "think" I was running away and spent the afternoon in the woods, or fishing, or at a friends down the street, but I always ended up home in time for dinner because just like you I'd catch hell for actually running away, and I caught hell for just spending the afternoon in the woods.....but I think every kid goes trhough that to an extent.

All I can say is that if it was my kid I'd want every resource available looking for him. Whether he ran away, got lost on his way home from the neighbors, or what have you.

I think you'd feel the same about your children....now on the flipside, I do think that it should have been made known up front by the media, and the parents that this kid has left before....so people wouldn't have been as concerned about foul play.

I also think that if the parents did NOT make that clear to the police that the use of those resources should be paid back in some fashion. Of course that won't happen, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. I know my child is priceless to me, and I may not have the money, but if the police told me it was 20k in resources to send out a search party I'd find a way to send that serach party out.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #63
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If you're telling me you never once left the house because you were pissed at your parents for something even if it was just to go to a a friends or the tree fort or wherever they couldn't find you for a bit I am calling bullshit.

Did your daughters ever disappear on you? Did they ever leave with out you knowing where they were or if they were safe? Maybe they didn't but if they did would you have called the police?

How did it not appear like an abduction? The only thing that I read was that a 12 year old was missing, it wasn't reported that he ran away, or that he was abducted, it just said he was missing. To me it didn't appear like, or not like an abduction.
I remember packing up a little bag like I saw on the cartoons and leaving once when I was mad as a kid. I made it pretty far but my mom says I never left her sight. I changed my mind about running away around dinner time.

My question is where was this child that his parents couldn't find him? I think if there were other adults involved and not notifying his parents that they should be liable for costs more than his parents.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by High Center Hancho View Post
fuck that bullshit...nice excuse...how about you pick up the bill for this...after all wouldn't it feel good to spend your money on returning a child to his family?
I agree with your thoughts on this, but where do you draw the line at what is considered acceptable usage of public service and what should incur extra costs?

One scenario that comes to mind that I've always thought about is, should the Coast Guard charge for having to haul retards off thin ice in March?(yes in my opinion)

I agree that its bullshit that tax payers get to foot the bill because some kid got pissy with his parents and wanted to make a point. But that is just how it works I suppose. Until the majority of the people in this country gain some form of personal responsibility shit like this and many other things that benefit the few at a cost to the many will happen time and time again.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 09:12 AM   #65
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Call the police? yes
Call out every resourse right away? Not so sure
From what I understand, they called the police. If I'm not mistaken, the citizen doesn't have the right to order the type of response, that is a command officer's decision, and we all know the MSP always gets that type of decision right?

Some of you may recall the over-response that MSP did in my neighborhood a couple of years ago when a SRT team of MSP's finest showed up with Ĺ dozen snipers, two canine units, a bomb squad and drove the fucking tank from Lansing to Fenton over a passed out douche that "threatened" two Fenton PD officers at 2:00 am when he was so drugged up on prescription and probably other meds that he passed out for 7 hours and literally never heard them on their loudspeakers blaring at his house during that time...

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I agree with your thoughts on this, but where do you draw the line at what is considered acceptable usage of public service and what should incur extra costs?
it's easy to agree with the sentiment and be outraged that costs were incurred and "someone must pay".

However we are talking about a minor, that had been unaccounted for well over 30 hours in some very cold weather, in a remote area.

And yes, while the kid could have initiated the start of the whole debacle by jumping out of that window - it also could have just as easily turned into an abduction seeing as he lives less than 150' from two "traffic roads" that are frequently used to commute to area connecter routes, interstates and beyond.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 09:36 AM   #66
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it's easy to agree with the sentiment and be outraged that costs were incurred and "someone must pay".

However we are talking about a minor, that had been unaccounted for well over 30 hours in some very cold weather, in a remote area.

And yes, while the kid could have initiated the start of the whole debacle by jumping out of that window - it also could have just as easily turned into an abduction seeing as he lives less than 150' from two "traffic roads" that are frequently used to commute to area connecter routes, interstates and beyond.
That's why I asked the question about where do you draw the line.

Yes it was a minor, but that could just mean that he is not responsible, but his parents are. Kinda like if he ran up a $1000 phone bill his parents would be responsible.

I also don't think Honcho was suggesting that they shouldn't even bother looking for the kid. I think he was suggesting that the parents should be liable for the costs incurred when it was found out it was a runaway situation and not an abduction.

It could also be said that we all pay for public services and while they may not be the people that use the police for daily domestic disturbance calls, noisy neighbor calls, etc... maybe they feel that this one time emergency is their "moneys worth" from the system they pay into.

I guess it goes either way...
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Old April 25th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #67
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To add to it.

This doesn't seem much more different than police being called repeatedly to respond to a woman getting her ass whipped, but not wanting to leave her man or press charges. I mean, why should my tax dollars have to go to protect an idiot that doesn't have enough sense to just walk away?

Or why should my tax dollars go to finding, prosecuting, and housing a guy that raped some crack heads that were willing to sell what he took for a few dollars?

You could play this game all day long with what you think is and isn't, in your opinion, fair use of your tax dollars.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
I also don't think Honcho was suggesting that they shouldn't even bother looking for the kid. I think he was suggesting that the parents should be liable for the costs incurred when it was found out it was a runaway situation and not an abduction.

It could also be said that we all pay for public services and while they may not be the people that use the police for daily domestic disturbance calls, noisy neighbor calls, etc... maybe they feel that this one time emergency is their "moneys worth" from the system they pay into.

I guess it goes either way...
MSP knew it was a runaway situation quite early in the game. I have the impression that Honcho is aware of how/when police matters are escalated. MSP set up a command post at 7 Lakes Recreation area the day he was found, and were helping organize a ground-effort to find him. They definitely knew at that point they were dealing with a kid that ran away - but the point remained nobody knew if he was still missing of his own accord, or if he had been abducted, sold for heroin, fed to the pigs, or whatever...

Similarly, in my neighborhood matter a few years ago, they knew that two Fenton Patrolman couldn't manage to detain/apprehend or subdue the cokehead wearing boxers and a t-shirt sitting in the middle of his driveway when they arrived, and let him turn his back on them, storm back into his house and slam and lock the front door shut.

We likely won't know what thought processes were going through the command officer's head when it was escalated to include multiple search dogs, and flying the MSP Chopper from Lansing. It may be that they figured they'd write it off as a training exercise.

Public services, much like insurance are meant to cover the few, by drawing on support from the many, or all if possible.

Last summer there was that whole discussion on that southern county that had a special assessment for fire protection to cover property damage. Liberaltards across the nation were upset that the fire department let that man's property burn to the ground once they discovered that life was not at risk...

I am all for personal responsibility, and helping those that can't help themselves - and I agree with you, where do you draw the line? where do you make the determination that someone won't help them-self, vs. can't help them-self - in the big picture does it matter if they can't or won't?

Last edited by RyeBread; April 25th, 2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
It could also be said that we all pay for public services and while they may not be the people that use the police for daily domestic disturbance calls, noisy neighbor calls, etc... maybe they feel that this one time emergency is their "moneys worth" from the system they pay into.

I guess it goes either way...


Yeah, I can see both sides. I donít have a problem with making people pay when their own idiocracy ends up costing tax payers lots of money, but I worry about running down the slippery slope to where public services become paid services available only to those that can afford it.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:02 AM   #70
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Yeah, I can see both sides. I donít have a problem with making people pay when their own idiocracy ends up costing tax payers lots of money, but I worry about running down the slippery slope to where public services become paid services available only to those that can afford it.
I agree, I could totally see that happening.

I honestly don't care if the people that can't afford it can't get the service. What my concern would be is that my taxes won't go down, yet any time I need a service the (whatever form of government) will charge a fee because it makes their bottom line better and I'd end up being double taxed.

Kid is safe, that's all that really matters to those involved. I'm done being political forum on this topic.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #71
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To add to it.

This doesn't seem much more different than police being called repeatedly to respond to a woman getting her ass whipped, but not wanting to leave her man or press charges. I mean, why should my tax dollars have to go to protect an idiot that doesn't have enough sense to just walk away?.
well, at least in michigan she can't drop the charges on her own accord completely anymore. The judge has to allow it. It's not like she can call the police and then go pick him up from the station later that night....she now at least has to wait for the judge to see him and arraign him and offer his bail.

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MSP knew it was a runaway situation quite early in the game.
Knowiung that would have allowed me to sleep better, when I found out late monday night there was a missing 12 year old I was concerned about my child being out of my sight.....

I think it would have been good to have been reported to the public when it was reported they were looking for him.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:16 AM   #72
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I guess if you stick your dick in something,and make a child,you are responsible for that child,period.If that child runs away,you are responsible for the cost assosiated with finding the kid.If you cant guarentee that the children you make are not going to run away,and be a burdon on tax payers,then maybe you shouldnt have kids.If they do run away,or cause other problems,you should be prepared to be the responsible party and expect to pay all costs associated with the problem.
I am so tired of stupid,useless people making stupid useless babies that do nothing but drain our country of it's resources,and our people of their money.

Im glad the kid was found safe.
I realize his parents may have done everything right,and the kid still may have problems,it's still the parents responsibility.It's called " the fuckin ya git,for the fuckin ya got".
My point is, if you are going to make babies,be prepared for the worst,and dont expect my tax dollars to bail you out when your wife spits out the antichrist.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #73
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I guess if you stick your dick in something,and make a child,you are responsible for that child,period.If that child runs away,you are responsible for the cost assosiated with finding the kid.If you cant guarentee that the children you make are not going to run away,and be a burdon on tax payers,then maybe you shouldnt have kids.If they do run away,or cause other problems,you should be prepared to be the responsible party and expect to pay all costs associated with the problem.
I am so tired of stupid,useless people making stupid useless babies that do nothing but drain our country of it's resources,and our people of their money.

Im glad the kid was found safe.
I realize his parents may have done everything right,and the kid still may have problems,it's still the parents responsibility.It's called " the fuckin ya git,for the fuckin ya got".
My point is, if you are going to make babies,be prepared for the worst,and dont expect my tax dollars to bail you out when your wife spits out the antichrist.
This is the first post of yours I agree with. However i think you'd agree it is not a 100% black and white issue.

I mean by that logic, that means I shouldn't have to bear the costs of your ambulance ride for a car accident, or the police that show up, and the firemen who show up, etc.

We all sorta pay into the system up front, so we can use it later if we need it....
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:30 AM   #74
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After reading this thread I am going to run away from it, too much going on man.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:53 AM   #75
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Why should the parents have to pay for the WHOLE thing? They have payed taxes their whole life just like the rest of us. Sometimes you need the system to help you out. If someone's house burns down should they pay for 100% of all the fire department bills? If you got in a car wreck and you were pinned inside and they brought the jaws of life out and peeled the car off you how should they handle the finances with that? It is a 12 year old kids, he isn't thinking straight. I always thought one of the reasons you pay taxes is to cover things like this. I would rather pay for the police finding a lost kid than pay for all the lazy welfare recipients out there.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 12:48 PM   #76
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A couple thoughts.
I guess I missed that he was gone for 30 hours before all the resources were called out. Or was that the elapsed time he was gone? Either way, I don't think we need to panic over a run away but if he is gone for a period of time, increasing the search is justified.

No, I do not think the parents should have to pay. If the decision was made by LEO, then it became their call and I agree that it is part of our society and taxes. Also, having been a parent, there becomes a point where I don't think parents are responsible for kids. At what age? I'm not sure. But I think that our society is misguided when a 17 + 364 day old kid can't have a beer but the following day he can be recruited to drive a tank and kill people all in the name of military. Does his maturity really jump that much in 24 hours? I don't think so.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 02:06 PM   #77
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A couple thoughts.
I guess I missed that he was gone for 30 hours before all the resources were called out. Or was that the elapsed time he was gone? Either way, I don't think we need to panic over a run away but if he is gone for a period of time, increasing the search is justified.
I don't know the full details of when he was "missed" by the parents vs. when the MSP was called vs. when the MSP escalated the search efforts. I do know that I heard choppers flying over Fenton for two consecutive evenings. The papers indicated he went missing Sunday.

My son shares 5 classes with Devon, when I asked Jake if he was in school Friday, I was reminded that the school had a field trip for 6th graders that day, so Jake did not see him, but that he thought Devon had been up North over the weekend on a scouting excursion.

While I have met Devon's family, I don't really know them.

I do know the direct next door neighbors fairly well - but honestly, now that Devon has been found alive, it matters not to me what the timeline looked like - for one there is absolutely nothing constructive I can do with that information.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 02:18 PM   #78
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Why should the parents have to pay for the WHOLE thing? They have payed taxes their whole life just like the rest of us. Sometimes you need the system to help you out. If someone's house burns down should they pay for 100% of all the fire department bills? If you got in a car wreck and you were pinned inside and they brought the jaws of life out and peeled the car off you how should they handle the finances with that? It is a 12 year old kids, he isn't thinking straight. I always thought one of the reasons you pay taxes is to cover things like this. I would rather pay for the police finding a lost kid than pay for all the lazy welfare recipients out there.
x2

Our society would be a pretty f'ed up place if we left people to fend for themselves if they couldn't afford police or fire services or any of the other public services that everyone pays for (in one way or another).
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Old April 25th, 2012, 02:45 PM   #79
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So does this kid go to fenton ryebread? It sounds like he gone missing from holly township, and was found at grand blanc and seymour?
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Old April 25th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #80
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So does this kid go to fenton ryebread? It sounds like he gone missing from holly township, and was found at grand blanc and seymour?
he lives right at the edge of Holly Township (local municipality) but that part of Holly Township is within Fenton Schools - similar to Hills of Tyrone in Livingston County, Tyrone Township is still Fenton Schools. MSP has the "contract" for police service in Holly Township.

Yes, he goes to AGS Middle School.

I literally just read an update on facebook via a group private message, that on a previous occurrence he was located in Milford.

Again, very glad he was found, and very much hoping he gets some serious help. No family deserves to feel the panic of a lost child regardless of how that kid's whereabouts became unknown - and no community deserves the panic of wondering what happened, and "is my kid next"
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