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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:35 AM   #121
dietcoke313
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if you only think big government refers to how many people work for the government I can not help you, no matter what data I present. Carry on.
Please enlighten me. I'm here to learn.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:46 AM   #122
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I'm not here to teach
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:12 AM   #123
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I'm not here to teach
No, so you are here to say to state your opinion and not facts?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #124
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I am starting to not contribute to this thread, as if I did to begin with.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:34 AM   #125
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If you are poor there are programs that can help you currently without impacting everyone who has private health care. I don't feel sorry for people who can afford cigarettes, hobbies, and other expensive things, but say they cant afford to pay for health insurance. Being responsible for your own life planning is part of being a free person.
I have coworkers who are Canadian who can tell you the horrors of government health care. They take health insurance from our company because they would rather have our system than just being left to die if an issue arises. If I lived in Canada when I had my heart problem I would have probably died. Even a person without health insurance would have been saved in my scenario.
I personally wouldn't vote for Obama. I think that Romney is much better honestly.
Yes, there are programs for the poor.

But what Aber seemed to be suggesting is that it would be undesireable to have a program where everyone can get health care because there aren't enough medical services to go around. I'm just trying to get him to admit that he's talking about rationing health care based on ability to pay for it.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:51 AM   #126
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Obamacare is based on Romneycare
Yep.. this is one of the reasons I don't think they are all that much different.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 11:52 AM   #127
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Recent articles I have read suggested that the "skewing" is now going the other way. Meanign that the unemployment rate isn't falling as fast as would be expected based on the number of new jobs created because some of the people who had given up looking are now looking again.
I thought it was going down because people are falling off of unemployment benefits also?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 12:04 PM   #128
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Yes, there are programs for the poor.

But what Aber seemed to be suggesting is that it would be undesireable to have a program where everyone can get health care because there aren't enough medical services to go around. I'm just trying to get him to admit that he's talking about rationing health care based on ability to pay for it.
I think only one of my doctors take medicaid. Do I blame them for not wanting to be paid well for their work?? no... By time someone becomes a doctor they have paid approximately 200k+ for their schooling, had 6 years of classroom schooling, two years of medical school clinicals, and 3+ years of residency. I would say that being highly paid is in order.
I would be surprised if you polled the people who bitch that they earn to much, if you find that 1/10th of them have more than a bachelors degree.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 12:15 PM   #129
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Well that's why he is back peddling like a circus monkey. I think I heard him say yesterday that the plan for Mass. was good for Mass. only. Not for the country as a whole.

In the end, I would rather see programs that were directed towards helping these people, (who obviously need help) learn to support themselves through hard honest work rather than programs that teach them to work the system to the highest benefit.

I bust my ass for what I earn and it makes me very frustrated when I may be having a stress because of lack of funds and , and then here is person x that has money to pay bills, buy food and the lot, that does not contribute to the solution, but rather perpetuates the problem by exploiting these programs for their lifelong benefit.

This is getting old. Damn the fact that there is not the possibility in this situation that "we could agree to disagree".
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Old March 7th, 2012, 12:30 PM   #130
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I thought it was going down because people are falling off of unemployment benefits also?
This report:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

Says that the number of people not counted due to giving up the job search is mostly unchanged since last year.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 12:35 PM   #131
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I think only one of my doctors take medicaid. Do I blame them for not wanting to be paid well for their work?? no... By time someone becomes a doctor they have paid approximately 200k+ for their schooling, had 6 years of classroom schooling, two years of medical school clinicals, and 3+ years of residency. I would say that being highly paid is in order.
I would be surprised if you polled the people who bitch that they earn to much, if you find that 1/10th of them have more than a bachelors degree.
But you're still missing the point. Should we not bother trying to find a way to make health care affordable for everyone since there are not enough health care providers for everyone.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #132
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But you're still missing the point. Should we not bother trying to find a way to make health care affordable for everyone since there are not enough health care providers for everyone.
There might not be enough doctors but they are churning out PAs and Nurse Practitioners at a good rate. I think we are already beginning to have an issue with not having enough doctors since the baby boomers are both retiring and getting older. I know in Michigan they were opening up two additional medical schools to try to fill the gap.
I can guarantee that if there was enough well paying demand for doctors you would end up seeing more schools open and more people motivated to go into that career.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #133
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There might not be enough doctors but they are churning out PAs and Nurse Practitioners at a good rate. I think we are already beginning to have an issue with not having enough doctors since the baby boomers are both retiring and getting older. I know in Michigan they were opening up two additional medical schools to try to fill the gap.
I can guarantee that if there was enough well paying demand for doctors you would end up seeing more schools open and more people motivated to go into that career.
Hopefully. The problem is that 11 year lead time for making new doctors.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 01:34 PM   #134
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Hopefully. The problem is that 11 year lead time for making new doctors.
They started ramping up for this a few years ago and they have started churning out PAs and NPs as a stop gap also. I am not saying that supply meets demand, but it's not as dire as some would have you believe.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:19 PM   #135
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Yes, there are programs for the poor.

But what Aber seemed to be suggesting is that it would be undesireable to have a program where everyone can get health care because there aren't enough medical services to go around. I'm just trying to get him to admit that he's talking about rationing health care based on ability to pay for it.
No I am not suggesting that it would be undesirable to have programs to help the ones that cannot afford health care coverage. If people need to see a doctor or have to be in the hospital for medical related issues then it should be affordable. Everyone needs to be treated as an equal according to medical attention received. But it is not that way, unfortunatly. It's who's got the money gets the best medical attention. There has to be a way but not at the cost of a nation going broke because of it. We have medicare and medicade for that.
With the Obamacare issue it is more about control than healthcare for all.
As for rationing healthcare, they will say it will not happen but believe me when I tell you that if and when Obamacare is fully implemented if not before you will see longer waits to see the doctors and longer waits for surgeries. It happens in Canada and that is what they have there, socialized medical coverage for all.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:31 PM   #136
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No, so you are here to say to state your opinion and not facts?
No, it just isn't worth the effort to point out something so obvious if you can't figure it out on your own.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #137
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No, it just isn't worth the effort to point out something so obvious if you can't figure it out on your own.
I would really like to know. How did government get bigger under Obama. Please do tell me.

This is one of the main talking points for the anti Obama so anyone please tell me.

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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #138
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<--- enjoying the fact that this thread has gone into 7 pages of relitivly cival dialoge...


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Originally Posted by aber61
No I am not suggesting that it would be undesirable to have programs to help the ones that cannot afford health care coverage. If people need to see a doctor or have to be in the hospital for medical related issues then it should be affordable. Everyone needs to be treated as an equal according to medical attention received. But it is not that way, unfortunatly. It's who's got the money gets the best medical attention. There has to be a way but not at the cost of a nation going broke because of it. We have medicare and medicade for that.
With the Obamacare issue it is more about control than healthcare for all.
As for rationing healthcare, they will say it will not happen but believe me when I tell you that if and when Obamacare is fully implemented if not before you will see longer waits to see the doctors and longer waits for surgeries. It happens in Canada and that is what they have there, socialized medical coverage for all.
I'm trying to understand what you think we need changed with our heath care system VS. what you think will happen according to the Obama administrations plan for heath care. I'm seeing you say things like...
- everyone needs to be treated equal.
- there has to be a way for heath-care for everyone, but not at the expence of the nation.
-medicare and medicaid are working for those that can't afford other coverage.
-I should belive you when you tell me that Obama's health care plan = Canada.

Is this about right?
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:24 PM   #139
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<--- enjoying the fact that this thread has gone into 7 pages of relitivly cival dialoge...




I'm trying to understand what you think we need changed with our heath care system VS. what you think will happen according to the Obama administrations plan for heath care. I'm seeing you say things like...
- everyone needs to be treated equal.
- there has to be a way for heath-care for everyone, but not at the expence of the nation.
-medicare and medicaid are working for those that can't afford other coverage.
-I should belive you when you tell me that Obama's health care plan = Canada.

Is this about right?

So what is your point?
You say civil dialog and yet you change the font in my post to make it look like I am the one ranting.
I made a statement about Obamacare and how I think it is a bad idea for this country.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #140
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So what is your point?
You say civil dialog and yet you change the font in my post to make it look like I am the one ranting.
I made a statement about Obamacare and how I think it is a bad idea for this country.
Sorry, that was not my intent. The bold parts in your quote were the points I pulled out to understand.

My point is that it seems you want a lot of things from heath care. AND, those "wants" don't seem to match the arguments you provide against your perception of Obamas plan.

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