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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:33 AM   #101
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Good Morning all. I thought that after my last "long winded" reply to this thread, I would be done, but I keep reading others responses and it compels me to comment more. But the responses seem to be getting off track of the original question and down to the root matters.

Which is why a platform like this can play a significant role in the education of those that are not as educated about these things, like me.

So I pose another scenario. What do you think would happen if we did not have a president? What if we were ruled by governmental body that did not ask us our opinion but rather made decision's and passed laws, rules and regulations based on the what a few thought served the greater good? What then do you think would happen?
Morning Toast, Its good to see fresh ideas and a different outlook.
I thing I see your senario with Obama, Biden, Reid and Pelosi
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:36 AM   #102
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So I pose another scenario. What do you think would happen if we did not have a president? What if we were ruled by governmental body that did not ask us our opinion but rather made decision's and passed laws, rules and regulations based on the what a few thought served the greater good? What then do you think would happen?[/QUOTE]

Isn't this what we have now?

Couldn't resist.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:37 AM   #103
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let's not forget that there are less people applying for unemployment, not looking, therefore the so called lower unemployment numbers are skewed.
Recent articles I have read suggested that the "skewing" is now going the other way. Meanign that the unemployment rate isn't falling as fast as would be expected based on the number of new jobs created because some of the people who had given up looking are now looking again.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:41 AM   #104
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I am for less government control and I do not want the government to pay for abortions. I am against abortions, but if someone wants to get one, they can pay for themselves not my tax dollars.
You're tax dollars will be paying for it regardless, just by a different means such as child support. Abortions are cheaper.

I don't think birth control should be provided by the government as per the latest political argument out there, but the reality of it is the more ghetto baby makers are on birth control the lower the tax burdern on the rest of us. It may be a sick view of the world, but if you can't stand on your own two feet financially, you shouldn't be able to shoot 10 kids out of a clown car vagina to get more money. In some form, I guess I'm a proponent of population control.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:42 AM   #105
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Sad but this is our system. With only 16% voting in presidential elections.
I don't know where you get your data but voter turnout averages nearly 64% in presidential elections going back to 1828. In 2008, turnout was at just over 57%, which was the largest turnout since 1968. Turnout has also risen each cycle since 1996.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:46 AM   #106
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I don't know where you get your data but voter turnout averages nearly 64% in presidential elections going back to 1828. In 2008, turnout was at just over 57%, which was the largest turnout since 1968. Turnout has also risen each cycle since 1996.
You are correct. I did have bad info.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #107
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I just looked this up and the wavers you are talking about are time limited all ending in 2014 and are for the minimum of coverage. The unions did get some of the 1200 given out but not the biggest share. The insurance companys did.
I recently learned that because of Obamacare I may be forced to take my employer's shit health insurance instead of riding on my wife's employer's less mediocre health insurance.

Fuck the wat?

To me the people that LIVE on welfare are freeloaders and should be gone. But that's not really why I even started this topic.

For me:
Hatred of freeloaders >> dislike of abortion
Therefore I vote

I guess if anything I've learned from this topic is that we are all pretty much the same. are anti- and are anti- more than they are anti-(insert the other guy here) and far, far more than they are pro-(insert your party's candidate here).
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:48 AM   #108
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I want what I think most Americans want. I want to be free to live my life without interference from others, government, religion, or otherwise. I want ordered liberty.

I didn't vote for Obama last time and I won't be voting for Barack, Mitt, Rick, or Newt this time. It will be Ron Paul or third party. I see a vote for the establishment Republican candidate as 8 more years of pretty extreme misery. I see a vote for Obama as 4 more years of very extreme misery. Neither is acceptable and I won't support either.

I am hoping for a brokered convention. This will favor Paul heavily as he has stacked the delegate's in every state with his supporter's who will be free to vote for any candidate they wish during a brokered convention.

Anyone who believe's that the economy is improving, or has improved since the mid 90's, or will improve under either establisment party candidate isn't paying attention. Obama is no more or less to blame for this than Bush I, Bush II, Reagan, Clinton, Carter, Ford, Nixon... none of them did much of anything real to the economy, but they all took credit or blame from voters. This plays into the red team vs. blue team game that keeps us divided.

As far as the real ecomomy goes...

9% unemployment? Thats' funny and completely false, but it sure looks good to uninformed voters during and election year. At least compared to the real number, closer to 22%.

Inflation 2%? Stop it you're killing me! Real annual inflation, using the old method that included things like food and gasoline, is more like 9.6%

When the numbers look bad, then just change the accounting method until you get the number you want. EASY! Expect the numbers to improve slightly until after election day.

Add to that: Real interest rates are negative and cannot be changed, debt has exceeded GDP, The five biggest American banks are on the hook to bail out the euro when it fails but don't have the capital to do it. And China, India, Iran, and Russia are considering trading oil in gold, not dollars, directly threating the petro-dollar scam that's kept this country alive since the we went off the gold standard. The housing market is still in free fall while the banks are holding on to their forclosed inventory, for fear of taking a loss that will bankrupt them.

Try reading at zerohedge.com for a couple of weeks and then come back and tell me how the economy is really doing.

Meanwhile there is only one current candidate who has a real grasp on these issues.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:50 AM   #109
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I just looked this up and the wavers you are talking about are time limited all ending in 2014 and are for the minimum of coverage. The unions did get some of the 1200 given out but not the biggest share. The insurance companys did.
And that's okay because..........................
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:52 AM   #110
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I guess if anything I've learned from this topic is that we are all pretty much the same. are anti- and are anti- more than they are anti-(insert the other guy here) and far, far more than they are pro-(insert your party's candidate here).
True dat!!
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:54 AM   #111
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And that's okay because..........................
I never said it was ok. I was just stating what I learned today.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 08:57 AM   #112
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I want what I think most Americans want. I want to be free to live my life without interference from others, government, religion, or otherwise. I want ordered liberty.

I didn't vote for Obama last time and I won't be voting for Barack, Mitt, Rick, or Newt this time. It will be Ron Paul or third party. I see a vote for the establishment Republican candidate as 8 more years of pretty extreme misery. I see a vote for Obama as 4 more years of very extreme misery. Neither is acceptable and I won't support either.

I am hoping for a brokered convention. This will favor Paul heavily as he has stacked the delegate's in every state with his supporter's who will be free to vote for any candidate they wish during a brokered convention.

Anyone who believe's that the economy is improving, or has improved since the mid 90's, or will improve under either establisment party candidate isn't paying attention. Obama is no more or less to blame for this than Bush I, Bush II, Reagan, Clinton, Carter, Ford, Nixon... none of them did much of anything real to the economy, but they all took credit or blame from voters. This plays into the red team vs. blue team game that keeps us divided.

As far as the real ecomomy goes...

9% unemployment? Thats' funny and completely false, but it sure looks good to uninformed voters during and election year. At least compared to the real number, closer to 22%.

Inflation 2%? Stop it you're killing me! Real annual inflation, using the old method that included things like food and gasoline, is more like 9.6%

When the numbers look bad, then just change the accounting method until you get the number you want. EASY! Expect the numbers to improve slightly until after election day.

Add to that: Real interest rates are negative and cannot be changed, debt has exceeded GDP, The five biggest American banks are on the hook to bail out the euro when it fails but don't have the capital to do it. And China, India, Iran, and Russia are considering trading oil in gold, not dollars, directly threating the petro-dollar scam that's kept this country alive since the we went off the gold standard. The housing market is still in free fall while the banks are holding on to their forclosed inventory, for fear of taking a loss that will bankrupt them.

Try reading at zerohedge.com for a couple of weeks and then come back and tell me how the economy is really doing.

Meanwhile there is only one current candidate who has a real grasp on these issues.
I like and hate your post all at the same time. I like it because its right. I hate it because its right.

The unemployment thing kinda gets me. All they ever seem to talk about is the amount of new claims or even the number of people that are still collecting benefits. How about a good hard number for the public of how many people have exhausted their benefits and have fallen off the records? I would imagine that's where the 22% you mention comes in to play that they never speak of.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #113
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I saw that monkey boy
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:10 AM   #114
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I never said it was ok. I was just stating what I learned today.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #115
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Morning Toast, Its good to see fresh ideas and a different outlook.
I thing I see your senario with Obama, Biden, Reid and Pelosi

Thank you, I was hoping I got that right. I haven't even got my first cup of mud down my throat. Kinda dangerous to spin off like that with out caffeinated encouragement.

But my point was that we are headed down this road. We are getting a president, whoever it is, that is a puppet for the elite, regardless of what party affiliation they claim. We need to find a president that can represent the people, not the representatives for the elite that have been placed by the elite.

Fresh ideas......that would be a fresh idea. Political hats are hung on these old debates that people have been conditioned to rate important to them. Not because it is truly important, in most cases, but it poses a potential mark in the victory column if a debate is won in their favor by their party, and people like to see someone win. A mark in that column translates to some sort of superiority on all fronts, which makes concrete the concept of that party being the best party in power. These are conditioned victories, A conditioned victory, is that of a sales pitch, strategically placed at the right moment, so it boosts confidence in the whole picture. It is a well wrote movie that we cannot see the end of because we are drawn into the current .

It is the sheep that are looking to a false shepard or false shepards, and the false shepard's are paid under the table by the wolves, the elite.

We need to wake up and fight the true problem. No one ever lost a fight because they fought, they lost because they did not defend themselves effectively or didn't fight at all to begin with.

I don't know many people on here, and my comments are based on one opinion, mine and what ever I learn along the path that has been set before me. I bet there is not one elite-ist on here. But I can tell you this, the wolves are counting on all of the middle class, us, to fight each-other over everything. A civil war among the middle class, rendering it voiceless and bound by its own failure, will put a mark in the win column for the wolves. And let me be clear, the wolves are not just the Elite in America, they are worldwide. Period.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #116
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Right. Our medical system isn't big enough for everyone to get treatment. If everyone could afford treatment our system would be overwhelmed. The only fair answer is to ration health care based on ability to pay. If you're poor, oh well, it sucks to be you.
If you are poor there are programs that can help you currently without impacting everyone who has private health care. I don't feel sorry for people who can afford cigarettes, hobbies, and other expensive things, but say they cant afford to pay for health insurance. Being responsible for your own life planning is part of being a free person.
I have coworkers who are Canadian who can tell you the horrors of government health care. They take health insurance from our company because they would rather have our system than just being left to die if an issue arises. If I lived in Canada when I had my heart problem I would have probably died. Even a person without health insurance would have been saved in my scenario.
I personally wouldn't vote for Obama. I think that Romney is much better honestly.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #117
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Good Morning all. I thought that after my last "long winded" reply to this thread, I would be done, but I keep reading others responses and it compels me to comment more. But the responses seem to be getting off track of the original question and down to the root matters.

Which is why a platform like this can play a significant role in the education of those that are not as educated about these things, like me.

So I pose another scenario. What do you think would happen if we did not have a president? What if we were ruled by governmental body that did not ask us our opinion but rather made decision's and passed laws, rules and regulations based on the what a few thought served the greater good? What then do you think would happen?
Seriously - how is that different than what we have right now? Politicians campaign, lie to get elected and then pose legislation that best suits their agenda, not the public's wishes.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:20 AM   #118
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I would like to read the info you have that can back up your statements.

Part of the unemployment rate is do all governments big and small are laying off.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...-sector-grows/
if you only think big government refers to how many people work for the government I can not help you, no matter what data I present. Carry on.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:23 AM   #119
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The scenario I posed was not meant to reveal something new and innovative, but rather point out that this is the current scenario, and that if it does not change we are going to suffer the same results. Change the status quot, unless you're satisfied.

I meant not to sound obvious, but rather to levitate the current problem and shed more accurate light on it. This is an administration that is not one puppet, but many. A characteristic of a large government.

Look here is the deal. We can bash this around again and again and again. And maybe that is as far as this goes. But the true undeniable difference that we are all looking for is not going to come at the hands of a forum, like this, but at then hands of an organized, well thought and loud voice, that is the middles class.
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Old March 7th, 2012, 10:33 AM   #120
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If you are poor there are programs that can help you currently without impacting everyone who has private health care. I don't feel sorry for people who can afford cigarettes, hobbies, and other expensive things, but say they cant afford to pay for health insurance. Being responsible for your own life planning is part of being a free person.
I have coworkers who are Canadian who can tell you the horrors of government health care. They take health insurance from our company because they would rather have our system than just being left to die if an issue arises. If I lived in Canada when I had my heart problem I would have probably died. Even a person without health insurance would have been saved in my scenario.
I personally wouldn't vote for Obama. I think that Romney is much better honestly.
Obamacare is based on Romneycare
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