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Old February 17th, 2012, 11:18 PM   #1
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Default Ford 6.0 Diesel Techs.

I have been avoiding electronically controlled diesels for a long time because I didn't want to invest in the tools to do them. That coupled with the fact Ford felt it was a good idea to have a short pretty hoodline over making their trucks easily servicable as a fleet vehicle, but I digress.

I've come to the point where I may have to service injectors on a 2004 6.0 with a pickup cab. The time calls for 10 hours and I'm pretty sure the recommended procedure is to disconnect the cab from the frame and slide it back to service the engine. I would like to tap into your experience with these engineering marvels (I really know its more of a marketing issue) so I can bid the job out that is profitable to me yet attractve to the potential customer. I am courting this customer because they have 30 ish vehicles and I want a slice of the action. I've got my foot in the door, now it's time to dance.

Tell me what I need to do for a top quality job. My Mitchell softwear doesn't tell me much and the tool guy says no special tools area really required. From what I can tell, I only need injectors, valve cover gaskets, and some antifreeze. Do I need to drop the oil after the R&R? I would assume I am going to break apart the A/C system so I will need to recharge that too. Are there any other parts or pieces I need to include in the estimate?

Please enlighten me on what's involved. For those that don't know, I am a very experinced mechanic in both gas and diesel applications. I also have a well equiped shop.

Thanks in advance.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #2
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03.5-04.5 will be a little different than 04.5 up. If the ICP is on the front passenger side valve cover then you have the 04.5 and up. This will have the updated wavy high pressure oil rails.

I'm not a tech by any means but i've been in there a few times.
Injectors are pretty easy to get to. Driver side will require pulling the degas bottle and ficm, passenger side will not require much more than just pulling the valve cover. You can probably get away without replacing the cover gaskets.

You do have to be extremely careful with the seals with the injector R&R and should probably replace the standpipes and dummy plugs if they have not been replaced before, the newer ones have a teflon o ring to help keep them from leaking. I'm sure others can chime in with the real technical details.

Are you sure the injectors themselves are bad. Low voltages can cause a lot of issues. If in fact the injectors are bad you will want to check voltage so that you don't cause the same issues again.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 10:18 AM   #3
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PM frdboy, he is the man on new diesels
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Old February 18th, 2012, 11:14 AM   #4
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The tuck is an early 04. I believe the build date is 10/03.
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Old February 18th, 2012, 11:18 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvis13 View Post
03.5-04.5 will be a little different than 04.5 up. If the ICP is on the front passenger side valve cover then you have the 04.5 and up. This will have the updated wavy high pressure oil rails.

I'm not a tech by any means but i've been in there a few times.
Injectors are pretty easy to get to. Driver side will require pulling the degas bottle and ficm, passenger side will not require much more than just pulling the valve cover. You can probably get away without replacing the cover gaskets.

You do have to be extremely careful with the seals with the injector R&R and should probably replace the standpipes and dummy plugs if they have not been replaced before, the newer ones have a teflon o ring to help keep them from leaking. I'm sure others can chime in with the real technical details.

Are you sure the injectors themselves are bad. Low voltages can cause a lot of issues. If in fact the injectors are bad you will want to check voltage so that you don't cause the same issues again.
I am encouraging the customer to let me diagnose it so I can fix the problem verses whipping multi-thousands of dollars at it and crossing my fingers.

As far as voltage at the injectors, how should I check them? DVOM or is an ocilliscope required?
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Old February 20th, 2012, 07:11 AM   #6
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Quote:
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I am encouraging the customer to let me diagnose it so I can fix the problem verses whipping multi-thousands of dollars at it and crossing my fingers.

As far as voltage at the injectors, how should I check them? DVOM or is an ocilliscope required?
I keep an eye on mine through a scangauge II. I can check 3 different voltages with that $150 guage. You can also pull the small cover on the FICM under the degas (torx 27?) and check voltages from there.

It probably has the older style ficm which is a 7 pin the newer ones are 4. By pulling the cover you can put a basic volt meter to one of the pins (i'll have to check on the 7) and check voltage during glow plug warmup, starting and running. At no time should the voltage drop below 46v.

From my understanding the ficm converts a 12v system to 48v through 4 different areas in the ficm. On my truck I had an entire area quit working during startup and I was only running 36v during startup (truck ran great the entire time). I pulled the ficm apart and resoldered a few joints and have had it back up to 48v ever since. Just because you are at 48v does not mean that it is working perfectly but it is an indicator.

You may also want to test and see which flash that truck has because they did go to a harsh one to try and save the injectors and ended up burning out a lot of ficm's. I believe the newest is a heat induction something or other.

Like i said, i am no mechanic but i worked through a lot on a couple of 6.0's and they're pretty simple. I have heard horror stories but most seems to be derived from lack of maintenance and preventative maintenance.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 03:54 PM   #7
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as far as just r&r on the injectors, they can be done without removing the cab, just need to remove the valve covers. drivers side degas bottle, FICM, and intake must be removed, pass side, the GPCM(glow plug module) and trans dipstick tube. valve cover gaskets can be reused, as long as they're not leaking. what type of concern exactly are you addressing on this? hard cold start, no start. stalls hot, low ICP(injector control pressure)? the 03's and early 04's had problems with injector tops breaking if it's a no start/stalls when hot concern, also leaking icp sensor, oil seeping into pigtail and shorting. either way, they're pretty simple to work on once the above listed times are out of the way. let me know what the concern is and i can head you in a direction
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Old March 1st, 2012, 07:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
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as far as just r&r on the injectors, they can be done without removing the cab, just need to remove the valve covers. drivers side degas bottle, FICM, and intake must be removed, pass side, the GPCM(glow plug module) and trans dipstick tube. valve cover gaskets can be reused, as long as they're not leaking. what type of concern exactly are you addressing on this? hard cold start, no start. stalls hot, low ICP(injector control pressure)? the 03's and early 04's had problems with injector tops breaking if it's a no start/stalls when hot concern, also leaking icp sensor, oil seeping into pigtail and shorting. either way, they're pretty simple to work on once the above listed times are out of the way. let me know what the concern is and i can head you in a direction
The R&R time is about 10 hours. Others have told me they needed to remove the cab to access the #7 and #8 injectors. I've been avoiding these buckets of crap for years but I have a commercial customer that has asked me about doing it.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 07:24 PM   #9
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you dont have to remove the cab, ive done two sets and never removed the cab for it.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 07:42 PM   #10
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Not sure what kind of scanner you have but 2 of the 3 scanners we have will do a buzz test on the injectors and you can see from there if any fail.
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Old March 1st, 2012, 09:34 PM   #11
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you dont have to remove the cab, ive done two sets and never removed the cab for it.
Sweet! Why 10 hours labor? They a real bitch to do?
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Old March 1st, 2012, 09:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Not sure what kind of scanner you have but 2 of the 3 scanners we have will do a buzz test on the injectors and you can see from there if any fail.
My current scanner will not do that and I'm not going to drop 3-5 grand just to test a truck here and there. I'll ship the truck to the dealer for diagnoses if I need too.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:44 PM   #13
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Look up the AE Auto Enginuitey (sp) scanner. I think it costs about 400 bucks and you hooks up to your laptop.

It honestly sounds like you're overthinking it. Between your mechanical experience and the internet, anything is possible on a 6.0. Like i've said many times, I 've done way more with my 6.0 than i ever have with any other electrically controlled vehicle and have done just fine.

Personally, there's probably a ton of money to be made with them. I even got a free trip to Drummond Island with all the beer and pizza i could drink to fix one in the parking lot of the grocery store. I just got another offer of beer and pizza to help with an EGR delete this month.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #14
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Do a coolant flush whiles it's in there Dave. Get rid of the factory junk coolant and put some cat coolant in there
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 07:22 PM   #15
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If we're going down the "improvement" road for longevity...

- EGR Cooler delete
- Turbo upgrade
- Head studs

Pretty much would save that 6.0 from becoming a carbon coked, leaking EGR cooler, sticking turbo, blown head gasket P.O.S.
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Old March 2nd, 2012, 08:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
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If we're going down the "improvement" road for longevity...

- EGR Cooler delete
- Turbo upgrade
- Head studs

Pretty much would save that 6.0 from becoming a carbon coked, leaking EGR cooler, sticking turbo, blown head gasket P.O.S.
What turbo would you upgrade too? Get rid of the VGT?
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 08:56 AM   #17
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I don't know specifics, but I know the Ford VGT rusts up causing the vanes to stick or lag resulting in under/over boost codes and derates. There are companies that make turbos with better materials resulting in less rust. I would stick with the VGT though unless you're really doing some mods. The VGT allows for performance acrossed all RPM ranges.

Last edited by ThinICE; March 3rd, 2012 at 08:57 AM. Reason: derp
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Old March 3rd, 2012, 09:04 AM   #18
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I have a 04 F 250 6.0 i have done all the work myself if you are having injector problem it might not be them there is a updated furl regulator spring factory ones are weak what are the symptoms you are having.

I clean my turbo about 2 times a year and its not bad also have a egr delete arp studs new hpop and collant bottle also ficm hot mod all this took me 2 days and a few beers. If you dont have a scanner spent 70 bucks at a dealer and have them do a report for you. its a little more detailed then a cheap scanner.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #19
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Technically VGT is Holset, VNT is Garrett. not that its important just saying.
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Old March 9th, 2012, 08:18 PM   #20
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http://www.fordtechservice.dealercon...6lvgtguide.pdf

Yeah... may be Ford & International got it wrong
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