suspension guys please help wont flex - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 05:21 PM

i am in the process of installing a rustys 8.5 lift. they havent be able to give me any help on phone and im out of ideas.so far i have put in my lca brackets and made crossemeber for the long arm setup. both of the lower arms are at same angle and upper arms are at same angle. i have cut the uca mounts off the long are since my truss made the angles of upper arms wrong (hiem was almost maxed out) and set the so that the heim joint is now straight. i tried to flex the truck wiithout coils in it on jackstands. i can lift the passenger side up to 11 deq angle and then driverside starts coming up. i can lift driverside up to a 7 deg angle and passenger side starts lifting. it seems really tight and bound up but there is no pressure on the bolts or any force of any kind i had to use to assembly it. if i remove the uca's the axle will flex as much as i can jack it up with no prob but as soon as the uca are in its stiff. i thought this radious setup would flex like crazy but its all bound up and im at a loss. here are some pics if anyonr can help with ideas i would really appricate it.

Tab · February 19th, 2012, 05:46 PM

You're fighting the track bar too. It will flex more when its forced too, not just jacked up with something. 8.5 inches of lift requires a pretty stiff spring so it may not flex as well as you had hoped.

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 05:48 PM

What happens if you back off the Uca jam nut? Do you get more flex?
Do not drive it like that only test it.

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 05:56 PM

i will give the jam nuts a try tomorrow. wierd part when i jack up the driverside and get to a certin point is starts to lift whole truck up off jackstands but i have no coils in it. i am really at a total loss. i guess it could be fighting trac bar but it frees up axle with out uca's. i just dont know what would be next fix since it seemed to flex alot better with the short arms and 3" of lift.

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 06:05 PM

You also have your steering arm that will bind.
I had a Clayton 8" long arm on my old Xj. I could stuff a 33 and it would droop until it hung on shock. If they were not there then it would bind and hang on the steering.
I have a friend with a rustys lift and he did say his is stiff to. He hates it but the price was rite..

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 06:06 PM

If it is binding at the himes then backing off the jam but should give you slightly more flex because the hime will thread in and out and add more twist. If it does that and you get more flex then your truss is screwing the geometry of your y links

sbcrichie · February 19th, 2012, 06:11 PM

that sounds normal for radius arm set ups, take just one of the uca out and i bet i flexes better. radius arm set ups dont freely flex like a true four or three link because when they flex they are trying to twist the axle housing. It will flex fine when you wheel it because the weight of the vehicle will force it to flex. and like tab said the trac bar will do some binding too.

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 06:12 PM

if it is the truss then no RA style lift would work then right? is there any thing i could do to help andstill run the setup i have

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHEROKEEMUDMAN01

if it is the truss then no RA style lift would work then right? is there any thing i could do to help andstill run the setup i have

If the mounting geometry stays the same it will work like it should. If it raises your mounting pOint for your Uca then it changes the geometry for the long arm kit.

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 06:24 PM

Xj/cheese box!

High Center Hancho · February 19th, 2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennettisTileCo

If it is binding at the himes then backing off the jam but should give you slightly more flex because the hime will thread in and out and add more twist. If it does that and you get more flex then your truss is screwing the geometry of your y links

and it will also take away from the strenght of the joint causing a failure right at the threads...great advise

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Center Hancho

and it will also take away from the strenght of the joint causing a failure right at the threads...great advise

If you read the hole thread then you would see ware I told him to not drive on it like that but only to test it.

Tab · February 19th, 2012, 07:05 PM

Also keep in mind that the design of a radius arm suspension isn't good due to the fact that when one side of the axle goes up and the other goes down the arms are trying to twist the axle in different directions. Not good for flex or joints in the uca.

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 07:25 PM

is there any way of finding the correct angle for the uca? could i lift the mount on the arm itself to help the angle? just trying to come up with some fixes here since i allready have the $ invested in thease arms.

Tab · February 19th, 2012, 07:38 PM

I don't think the angle matters too much on an upper arm of a radius arm suspension. It's not like a real 3 or 4 link in that regard. It basically just uses them to hold the axle in place. Have you run it with tires on it and tried driving up anything?

Tab · February 19th, 2012, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennettisTileCo

If the mounting geometry stays the same it will work like it should. If it raises your mounting pOint for your Uca then it changes the geometry for the long arm kit.

The radius arm geometry on a radius arm setup does almost nothing except to keep the axle from rotating. I does nothing to control pinion or caster movement through the range of motion like a 3 or 4 link.

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 07:52 PM

ok no havent run it yet still have to lift back and get steering straight. just got the axle back in front today and tried to "flex" it and was greatly dissapointed. and was consirned about how bound up front suspension was. i like to try to do thing as right as i can and i just didnt seem right to me since i have seen alot of xj"s on ra setup and flex good.

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 19th, 2012, 07:55 PM

main reason for doing this was to gain a little more flex but i really needed the height. because of the v8 and my truss with the last lift the axle would have hit motor if i drove it hard so with the 8.5 that shouldnt be a prob anymore but with that much lift i just thought it would have been a a little better.

92FleXj · February 19th, 2012, 08:11 PM

Your over thinking it. I think once you bolt the wheels on and drive it you will like it

CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 · February 20th, 2012, 09:49 AM

i will get it put togher and see how it works. otherwise i guess i can use the lca mounts that i have allready made and find the correct place and legnth for the uca's and were to locate them and maybe next winter do a 4 link setup.

February 19th, 2012, 05:21 PM	#1
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	suspension guys please help wont flex i am in the process of installing a rustys 8.5 lift. they havent be able to give me any help on phone and im out of ideas.so far i have put in my lca brackets and made crossemeber for the long arm setup. both of the lower arms are at same angle and upper arms are at same angle. i have cut the uca mounts off the long are since my truss made the angles of upper arms wrong (hiem was almost maxed out) and set the so that the heim joint is now straight. i tried to flex the truck wiithout coils in it on jackstands. i can lift the passenger side up to 11 deq angle and then driverside starts coming up. i can lift driverside up to a 7 deg angle and passenger side starts lifting. it seems really tight and bound up but there is no pressure on the bolts or any force of any kind i had to use to assembly it. if i remove the uca's the axle will flex as much as i can jack it up with no prob but as soon as the uca are in its stiff. i thought this radious setup would flex like crazy but its all bound up and im at a loss. here are some pics if anyonr can help with ideas i would really appricate it.

February 19th, 2012, 05:46 PM	#2
Tab Senior Member Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: Freeland, mi Posts: 3,914 iTrader: (29)	You're fighting the track bar too. It will flex more when its forced too, not just jacked up with something. 8.5 inches of lift requires a pretty stiff spring so it may not flex as well as you had hoped.

February 19th, 2012, 05:56 PM	#4
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	i will give the jam nuts a try tomorrow. wierd part when i jack up the driverside and get to a certin point is starts to lift whole truck up off jackstands but i have no coils in it. i am really at a total loss. i guess it could be fighting trac bar but it frees up axle with out uca's. i just dont know what would be next fix since it seemed to flex alot better with the short arms and 3" of lift.

February 19th, 2012, 06:11 PM	#7
sbcrichie R&R Fabwerks Join Date: 08-30-09 Location: sturgis/michigan Posts: 804 iTrader: (4)	that sounds normal for radius arm set ups, take just one of the uca out and i bet i flexes better. radius arm set ups dont freely flex like a true four or three link because when they flex they are trying to twist the axle housing. It will flex fine when you wheel it because the weight of the vehicle will force it to flex. and like tab said the trac bar will do some binding too.

February 19th, 2012, 06:12 PM	#8
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	if it is the truss then no RA style lift would work then right? is there any thing i could do to help andstill run the setup i have

February 19th, 2012, 07:05 PM	#13
Tab Senior Member Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: Freeland, mi Posts: 3,914 iTrader: (29)	Also keep in mind that the design of a radius arm suspension isn't good due to the fact that when one side of the axle goes up and the other goes down the arms are trying to twist the axle in different directions. Not good for flex or joints in the uca.

February 19th, 2012, 07:25 PM	#14
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	is there any way of finding the correct angle for the uca? could i lift the mount on the arm itself to help the angle? just trying to come up with some fixes here since i allready have the $ invested in thease arms.

February 19th, 2012, 07:38 PM	#15
Tab Senior Member Join Date: 11-05-05 Location: Freeland, mi Posts: 3,914 iTrader: (29)	I don't think the angle matters too much on an upper arm of a radius arm suspension. It's not like a real 3 or 4 link in that regard. It basically just uses them to hold the axle in place. Have you run it with tires on it and tried driving up anything?

February 19th, 2012, 07:52 PM	#17
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	ok no havent run it yet still have to lift back and get steering straight. just got the axle back in front today and tried to "flex" it and was greatly dissapointed. and was consirned about how bound up front suspension was. i like to try to do thing as right as i can and i just didnt seem right to me since i have seen alot of xj"s on ra setup and flex good.

February 19th, 2012, 07:55 PM	#18
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	main reason for doing this was to gain a little more flex but i really needed the height. because of the v8 and my truss with the last lift the axle would have hit motor if i drove it hard so with the 8.5 that shouldnt be a prob anymore but with that much lift i just thought it would have been a a little better.

February 20th, 2012, 09:49 AM	#20
CHEROKEEMUDMAN01 Senior Member Join Date: 10-03-09 Location: warren mi Posts: 601 iTrader: (8)	i will get it put togher and see how it works. otherwise i guess i can use the lca mounts that i have allready made and find the correct place and legnth for the uca's and were to locate them and maybe next winter do a 4 link setup.