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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:31 AM   #1
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Default 2 Stroke dirt bike on e85?

Worth the conversion? Benefits being able to run sky high compression and cooler opperating temps. I can also get it from the gas station down the street.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:43 AM   #2
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Its like 105 plus octane. But when used with aluminum. You get a lot of oxidation. So I would not use it myself.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 09:55 AM   #3
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I would say no, IMHO.

Off the top of my head, these are things that I think would be bad:

Starting the thing cold if it's a kick start. I'm not certain, but I would think the compression ratio you would have to run to notice any benefit would make kicking the thing very unpleasant. Also - I don't think you could change the enrichening circuit enough (choke) for cold starting.

Jetting the bike to run right will be a lot of work - to get it to run like it does on gasoline. You can't just increase the main jet xx sizes and have everything work. I'd imagine you'd need to experiment with different needle tapers and slide cutouts. I think the folks that run alky (in general) always run WFO - so if they have a part-throttle stumble - they really don't care.

Alcohol is very hydroscopic; Not sure if that would cause any concerns for your crankcase bearings.

Compression ratio - how would you increase it? Unless there's a piston sold that is super - high compression, you're left with machining the base of your cylinder and milling your head. You need to know WTF you're doing - and I'd imagine you'd want someone to open up your porting / return your timing to where it was before machining your jug base (thereby lowering your port timing and changing the power characteristics of your bike).

That's what comes to mind - whether or not they are actually valid problems, I don't know - I've never built what you are thinking about, I've just worked on 2 strokes forever and also work with ethanol in cars.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 10:51 AM   #4
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Im just kicking around ideas before I put everything back together. I was thinking about doing a small compression bump, but I dont want to worry about tracking down high octane stuff everytime I want to go ride. I also dont ride enough that having a drum of high octane at my house being worth it.

I do know that running with alchy requires purging the system when don riding for the day and flushing with oil. Starting on a cold day isnt much of a concern since I am a fair weather rider as well. And as far as starting it, I hadnt really thought about how much of a bitch it would be to kick over 16:1. I think I may bump it as high as I can and stick with 93.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 12:00 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
I would say no, IMHO.

Off the top of my head, these are things that I think would be bad:

Starting the thing cold if it's a kick start. I'm not certain, but I would think the compression ratio you would have to run to notice any benefit would make kicking the thing very unpleasant. Also - I don't think you could change the enrichening circuit enough (choke) for cold starting.

Jetting the bike to run right will be a lot of work - to get it to run like it does on gasoline. You can't just increase the main jet xx sizes and have everything work. I'd imagine you'd need to experiment with different needle tapers and slide cutouts. I think the folks that run alky (in general) always run WFO - so if they have a part-throttle stumble - they really don't care.

Alcohol is very hydroscopic; Not sure if that would cause any concerns for your crankcase bearings.

Compression ratio - how would you increase it? Unless there's a piston sold that is super - high compression, you're left with machining the base of your cylinder and milling your head. You need to know WTF you're doing - and I'd imagine you'd want someone to open up your porting / return your timing to where it was before machining your jug base (thereby lowering your port timing and changing the power characteristics of your bike).

That's what comes to mind - whether or not they are actually valid problems, I don't know - I've never built what you are thinking about, I've just worked on 2 strokes forever and also work with ethanol in cars.
X2 plus the fact that anything that the E85 touches needs to be stainless.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #6
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X2 plus the fact that anything that the E85 touches needs to be stainless.
Then why is it put in plastic gas tanks and run through plastic fuel lines? I know it eats rubber, but I had not heard "everything it touches needs to be stainless" before.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #7
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Then why is it put in plastic gas tanks and run through plastic fuel lines? I know it eats rubber, but I had not heard "everything it touches needs to be stainless" before.
I meant everything metal. Aluminum and ethanol don't play well together.

Plastic tanks and lines are fine.
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Old February 9th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #8
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I meant everything metal. Aluminum and ethanol don't play well together.

Plastic tanks and lines are fine.
I call bs on that everything metal because I know that no auto manufacture is going to put stainless pistons or a stainless block in everything that can run e85
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Old February 9th, 2012, 03:20 PM   #9
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You will get like 15 to 20 % less fuel economy then you get with it now
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Old February 10th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #10
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Not a good idea at all.
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Old February 13th, 2012, 04:56 AM   #11
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I call bs on that everything metal because I know that no auto manufacture is going to put stainless pistons or a stainless block in everything that can run e85
Well, you're giving it good thought, but there's something going on in the engine that helps it fight the downside of ethanol: Combustion.
OEM fuel systems were upgraded to ethanol-proof o-rings / plastics (for the solvent nature) and stainless in the metal parts because ethanol is like brake fluid - hydroscopic. Biggest difference why tour brake system doesn't need to be stainless is because it's not normally open to the air to pull moisture out of it. A fuel system, however, is open to the atmosphere (through a vented carbon canister and every time you take the gas cap off) and the in-ground fuel tanks at the station are as well.

E100 will tend to pull the humidity around the atmosphere until it reaches "E95" with 5% (by volume) water. This is also why you never see any alcohol for sale more than 190 proof - it's too damn hard to keep the water outta the mix, so the don't. It gets distilled to 100% or so and let it reach an equilibrium with the water volume.

So...the water that ethanol attracts and holds in suspension can be pretty tough on fuel system parts that are not rust-resistant. Once in the combustion chamber, however, there's not enough time for the water to harm anything because it gets vaporized during combustion and leaves the engine as steam.
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