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Old January 24th, 2012, 09:41 PM   #1
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Default Judge orders woman to de-crypt her own laptop, so contents can be used against her.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...op-decryption/

Goodbye 5th amendment. Scary stuff.
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Old January 24th, 2012, 11:23 PM   #2
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Seems pretty obvious that would be violating 5th amendment rights. Does the judge think no one will notice?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #3
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"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"

I'm no lawyer but this could be interpreted as you can't be forced to say anything, as in "pleading the 5th". However, does this mean that you can plead the 5th by with holding evidence? Kinda like can you refuse to unlock a door to your basement that may have incriminating evidence downstairs?

Dunno.......... just trying to understand.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 03:58 AM   #4
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Clear violation IMO...kiss another right goodbye.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 06:52 AM   #5
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"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself"

I'm no lawyer but this could be interpreted as you can't be forced to say anything, as in "pleading the 5th". However, does this mean that you can plead the 5th by with holding evidence? Kinda like can you refuse to unlock a door to your basement that may have incriminating evidence downstairs?
You can refuse to open the door but a judge can issue a warrant for the key. At that point, if you continue to refuse, the authorities can generally enter by force.


In this particular case, I imagine that she will appeal and the prosecution will use the reasoning that this is no different than compelling a defendant to turn over the key to a safe or to take a blood test - both of which are common practice in criminal court cases.

On the other side of the table, I imagine that the defense will try to claim that there is something inherently different about compelling a defendant to turn over something physical, like a key or blood, than compelling a defendant to turn over something intangible that exists only in their mind.

Personally, I don't think the woman should have to turn it over and if I were her, I'd be forgetting it pretty darn quickly.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:44 AM   #6
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Would refusing imply guilt? I mean, if you had nothing to hide.....
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Old January 25th, 2012, 07:56 AM   #7
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They don't have someone smart enough to hack it? I mean what are they going to charge her with if she rerfuses?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #8
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They don't have someone smart enough to hack it? I mean what are they going to charge her with if she rerfuses?
Supposedly, the type of encryption used can take years to crack.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #9
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This is no different than exciting search warrant on any property. As long as they have sufficient cause to suspect there is evidence on there, and the article says they have it. She can argue that the evidence they have isn't sufficient but thats about it. The best she can ask for is a 3rd party to go though the hard drive and search for any evidence pertaining to this charge. This will protect her privacy and anything else she may have on there.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 09:37 AM   #10
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This is no different than exciting search warrant on any property. As long as they have sufficient cause to suspect there is evidence on there, and the article says they have it. She can argue that the evidence they have isn't sufficient but thats about it. The best she can ask for is a 3rd party to go though the hard drive and search for any evidence pertaining to this charge. This will protect her privacy and anything else she may have on there.
no she doesn’t have an option of a third party...she must surrender the password so the LEO's can go through her hard drive....although if it were me...I would not surrender the password. I would tell them I'm not doing their job for them
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Old January 25th, 2012, 09:45 AM   #11
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no she doesn’t have an option of a third party...she must surrender the password so the LEO's can go through her hard drive....although if it were me...I would not surrender the password. I would tell them I'm not doing their job for them
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Old January 25th, 2012, 09:50 AM   #12
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no she doesn’t have an option of a third party...she must surrender the password so the LEO's can go through her hard drive....although if it were me...I would not surrender the password. I would tell them I'm not doing their job for them
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Old January 25th, 2012, 10:52 AM   #13
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I'm not sure where I stand on this. The thing is, I feel different based on what the person is being accused of. What if it was a terrorist who had plans, communications, and evidence of other terrorists? What about someone accused of having child porn?
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Old January 25th, 2012, 11:35 AM   #14
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I'm not sure where I stand on this. The thing is, I feel different based on what the person is being accused of. What if it was a terrorist who had plans, communications, and evidence of other terrorists? What about someone accused of having child porn?
Is the terrorist going to give up his password so he can be prosecuted?

I don't like the idea of telling criminals that they can just encrypt their info, and never be prosecuted, but the 5th amendment is what it is.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 12:25 PM   #15
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This I think is a tricky one. The information for the encryption is in her head, so if we hold up the order of the judge, why do we have the 5th ammendment? I understand there is a physical piece of evidence but the key to that is in her head, which is protected.
I feel like, if they can crack the encryption then it should be evidence, and if not it should not be used against her. It can be argued that this is a slippery slope.
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Old January 25th, 2012, 05:03 PM   #16
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Like Hancho said. It is their job to build the case with all available evidence. If they cannot do that on their own merit it is their problem. Giving up a pw in my mind is the same as making a self-incriminating statement and that falls under the 5th amendment.

As far as the different crimes go...when you start choosing who is protected and who isn't, pretty soon none of us will be. Precedents have already been sent that are taking us in that direction.
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