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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:21 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by RyeBread
I'm off site today, so only a short moment to put a thought.

If there was irrefutable, and physical/tangible and undeniable proof of God, would you really have a "choice" in believing?

Much of the religious doctrine regardless of "god" (christain, muslim, etc) centers around man's choice/free will; and that we're too limited to understand god's reasons.

many people have too large of an ego to humble themselves to that possibility.

one of the things that led me down the path towards belief/faith aside from the statistically rediculous odds of it all being "chance" is that I'm equally uncomfortable believing that my thoughts, feelings and emotions are all just a bunch of chemical reactions - or that I'm just a part of the "matrix".

:dunno:
Have you seen some of the very reserved educated guess's on how many life forms are within... it all?

thats ... viable planets in orbit of viable stars... with the right amount of time to simmer.

Its a STUPIDLY big number. All it takes is 1. 1 alien life form and the bible goes bunk.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:32 AM   #82
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While good in logic, this doesn't flow with the traditional teaching structure in most schools. This path of teaching falls more under the category of social science rather than physical science. This is why its typically thought down on by science teachers. Now what the people behind the movement should do is try and get origins of life put on the social studies curriculum. You are required to know a certain amount of the Civil War, the American Revolution, etc... why not include the origins of life in regards to beliefs in this area?
I disagree. i think it's irresponsible teaching to present theorys as fact. If your going to be teaching thoerys that arean't fully proven (and evolution will most likely never be proven) then it should be presented as such. That concept should be part of any science lesson.

As for the lack of evidence for ID the evidence for it is that which is unexplainable by evolution. There are pretty much only 2 sides of the debate, either the complex lifeforms we know today developed on thier own over millions of years by some "natural" process, or there was some higher power at work. I don't know of a 3rd option. So when you find something that doesn't work under option 1, then that would point towards option 2.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:33 AM   #83
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I disagree. i think it's irresponsible teaching to present theorys as fact. If your going to be teaching thoerys that arean't fully proven (and evolution will most likely never be proven) then it should be presented as such. That concept should be part of any science lesson.

It was. Im not sure where you are getting your information from but way back in 99 when I was sitting in that class it was presented as a true theory.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:36 AM   #84
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Its a STUPIDLY big number. All it takes is 1. 1 alien life form and the bible goes bunk.
Why?

I know of nothing in the bible that excludes the possibility of alien life forms.

In fact in the broadest sence, "god", the devil, and angles could be considered "alien' life forms.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:36 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Deke
Have you seen some of the very reserved educated guess's on how many life forms are within... it all?

thats ... viable planets in orbit of viable stars... with the right amount of time to simmer.

Its a STUPIDLY big number. All it takes is 1. 1 alien life form and the bible goes bunk.

Yep.

Ok, call me crazy here, but this is my belief. There is "life" after death and death is but the beginning. Death I believe is a transformation to another form of existence. What that is I'm not sure yet. I also believe that the transformation can return you into this world in another form. Call it a mulligan if you will. Perhaps we are on this planet to learn something about life and we stay here until we do and are ready to move on.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:37 AM   #86
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It was. Im not sure where you are getting your information from but way back in 99 when I was sitting in that class it was presented as a true theory.
I've heard it presented as "fact". Maybe not in school but other places. I'll have to ask my kids how it was presented to them.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:38 AM   #87
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Why?

I know of nothing in the bible that excludes the possibility of alien life forms.

In fact in the broadest sence, "god", the devil, and angles could be considered "alien' life forms.
Shocking alligations there.

If I recall correctly, in the bibles eyes, humans were created after a likeness of god himself. We are different then the other animals on earth. For some reason those animals lack a certain part of the brain that we have.
Now when you toss aliens into the mix whom have that part of their anatomy to be able to think like us that kinda makes the bible looks like trash.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:39 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by brewmenn
I disagree. i think it's irresponsible teaching to present theorys as fact. If your going to be teaching thoerys that arean't fully proven (and evolution will most likely never be proven) then it should be presented as such. That concept should be part of any science lesson.

As for the lack of evidence for ID the evidence for it is that which is unexplainable by evolution. There are pretty much only 2 sides of the debate, either the complex lifeforms we know today developed on thier own over millions of years by some "natural" process, or there was some higher power at work. I don't know of a 3rd option. So when you find something that doesn't work under option 1, then that would point towards option 2.

Problem is, there are MANY MANY theories in the physical sciences that are taught. The point being is that Science is about finding the truth about something and having a question to answer. Darwin's theory exists and is taught because others will and have taken up his work and tried to continue it. The same is true for Quantum Theory, The Theory of Relativity, etc...
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:42 AM   #89
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I've heard it presented as "fact". Maybe not in school but other places. I'll have to ask my kids how it was presented to them.
Just telling you how it was for me in high school.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:51 AM   #90
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Shocking alligations there.

If I recall correctly, in the bibles eyes, humans were created after a likeness of god himself.
But it never says that he didn't create others, on other planets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
We are different then the other animals on earth. For some reason those animals lack a certain part of the brain that we have.
Thats actually one of the reasons that I tend to believe that we didn't just evolve randomly from those other animals. Why would have only one species developed that way?
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:56 AM   #91
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Why would he leave that out then? Could it possibly because when the bible was written that we as human were ignorant of our surrounds and thus that reflects in what was written
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Old December 21st, 2005, 10:57 AM   #92
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But it never says that he didn't create others, on other planets.



Thats actually one of the reasons that I tend to believe that we didn't just evolve randomly from those other animals. Why would have only one species developed that way?

Simple, the bible is written by man and we are arrogant enough to assume that we are the only sentient beings in the universe.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 11:04 AM   #93
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concievable that if aliens were known about during that time period, I got money on it that says they woulda been included in the greater plan thing.

Can we start a pot on what day outta the week they woulda been created? My guess is on 4.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 11:05 AM   #94
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concievable that if aliens were known about during that time period, I got money on it that says they woulda been included in the greater plan thing.

Can we start a pot on what day outta the week they woulda been created? My guess is on 4.

You're thinking extraterresterial though. Have we proven beyond a doubt that dolphins or whales are not as inteligent as us?
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:47 PM   #95
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Shocking alligations there.

If I recall correctly, in the bibles eyes, humans were created after a likeness of god himself. We are different then the other animals on earth. For some reason those animals lack a certain part of the brain that we have.
Animals have a brain. They do not have a soul. God created animals FOR us, to use.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 12:51 PM   #96
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For those of you who believe in pure evolution I have one simple question...

How did it begin?

As far as I know science has no answer for how it went from a lifeless bunch of molocules to something living.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 01:42 PM   #97
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For those of you who believe in pure evolution I have one simple question...

How did it begin?

As far as I know science has no answer for how it went from a lifeless bunch of molocules to something living.
This is where I believe something not of this Earth got involved. I can belive primates evolving into humans, but its the whole primates simply appearing without any precursor that bother's me.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 01:59 PM   #98
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This is where I believe something not of this Earth got involved. I can belive primates evolving into humans, but its the whole primates simply appearing without any precursor that bother's me.
If by "something not of this earth" you mean some "non-physical" life form then you pretty much talking about ID. If you talking about some physical life form from another planet then you just transfering the question somewhere else.

At some point, whether on this planet or somewhere else, that which is not living had to become living. It was either a result of some "natural forces" or at the hand of a higher power.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 02:05 PM   #99
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If by "something not of this earth" you mean some "non-physical" life form then you pretty much talking about ID. If you talking about some physical life form from another planet then you just transfering the question somewhere else.

At some point, whether on this planet or somewhere else, that which is not living had to become living. It was either a result of some "natural forces" or at the hand of a higher power.

How do you mean "transferring the question"? What's to say we weren't planted here by martians for instance? Who's to say Adam and Eve did not crash land in some sort of escape pod as children just like Blue Lagoon? I'm saying I don't have an answer and I believe that is a big hole for evolution as a sole explanation.
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Old December 21st, 2005, 07:36 PM   #100
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How do you mean "transferring the question"? What's to say we weren't planted here by martians for instance? Who's to say Adam and Eve did not crash land in some sort of escape pod as children just like Blue Lagoon? I'm saying I don't have an answer and I believe that is a big hole for evolution as a sole explanation.
I think we're trying to make the same point. What I mean by "transfering the question" is that if life was planted here by some other life form from planet rorhgwhglwegh then how did life start there? I presume that in the "big bang" theory that there was no life before the big bang, but that at some time after that life started. At some point you have to go from no life to life. As far as I know science has no answer for how that happens, so to believe that it did is also somewhat an "act of faith."
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