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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:47 AM   #21
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Lots of insightful information here watching this closley. I always thought DF was the way to go. I float the heck out of a clutch constantly heating them up stock/DF. DF seems like it has a bit more grab but still is burrning after a few hours of floating. I am hoping that by spliting gearing I can leave the transmision in the proper gear for the situation.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 09:56 AM   #22
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Have you considered lowering your power curve with a comp cam/intake letting you drop your idle speed letting the clutch grab in the power curve avoiding the chugging.
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Old December 19th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacongrease View Post
I dont think some of you get it...

He has a 4.3, not a race motor.

Hes looking for a clutch that wont slip when when fully enganged but can also be slipped for crawling.

Even with low gears there are times where you need to hold 2500-3000ish rpms while holding full brakes, then release the clutch slowly (slipping it a bit) and let off the brakes slowly in order to have control and not slip the tires / roll back.

When i switched clutches this became near impossible. As i let out the clutch it was fractions of inch of pedal travel between no engagement and 100% engagement. This was on a TJ with 38's a 4.0-AX15-231-300doubler.

I personally dont think an OEM clutch should slip even in 4hi, if i were you i would inspect what you have before shelling $$ on a blink clutch. That is if slow, controlled crawling is what your after. Drag racing.. big power.... no slip... you will want a better clutch

my .02 cents
I agree. Stock engine, there shouldn't be need for something other than the OEM setup.

If your clutch can't hold on a ramp, then you probably have something else wrong. Are you sure its actually the clutch slipping? Shifting into 4LO letting it possibly means its not your clutch slipping but your engine turning over. If it is your clutch slipping then its worn out.

If you are really burning/heating clutches up off road, then its usually:

1) You don't have proper gearing
2) You are getting it wet/muddy (pushing in the clutch underwater sucks mud and water between the disc and pressure plate = bad)
3) The clutch is worn
4) You don't know how to drive
5) combination of above

Most of my wheeling rigs have all been sticks. From stock TJ with a 4.0 and 31s to a 4 cyl toyota on 38.5s. The only clutch slippage I've ever had (and did a lot of heavy crawling @ Attica, Tellico, Harlan, Drummond, Canada, etc), was getting the clutch wet.

My stock 9" toyota clutch would not slip while parked @ 45 degree downward facing trail on the side of a mountain in Tellico(decending on #12 from helicopter pad), but even at 100:1 gearing, my engine did not have enough pressure and turned over slowly creeping down the hill unless I stood on the brakes.


What size tires, what gears and transmission/t-case, and how old is your clutch?
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Old December 19th, 2011, 11:53 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
Lots of insightful information here watching this closley. I always thought DF was the way to go. I float the heck out of a clutch constantly heating them up stock/DF. DF seems like it has a bit more grab but still is burrning after a few hours of floating. I am hoping that by spliting gearing I can leave the transmision in the proper gear for the situation.
Why float the clutch all the time? Again, that points to undergeared, underpowered, or both.

Or, its not as much that you need to split gears, but that you need to move them a little. Something people do not think nearly enough about.

IF you take a reasonably light Jeep, like a CJ5, and get a torquey motor, even a 225 or 4.3, or better a 304 or 350 or something. Then you shouldn't have a issue with a wide range transmission. BUT, you need to understand what ground speeds you need. Really, there's one critical gear, IMO, thats your wheel speed gear. Say you've got a 4 speed like a T18, or SM465. Most people worry about crawl speed. But 1st gear isn't critical. A good power/weight ratio is going to be fine with 40:1 or 50:1 or 60:1, wherever it ends up. If you have a V8 that lugs at 400rpm, then you are effectively doubling your gearing compared to something like my old 4 cyl creeping along at 1200rpm. Creeper gear is rarely the issue.

The one you care about is 2nd gear. Your power gear. You want to spend most of the trail in this gear. Low enough to have as much power as possible (you'd like to be able to gas it and blip/spin the tires in this gear without touching the clutch), but high enough geared that you don't need to shift in 90% of cases. So, you need to match it to your engine's RPM so you can climb test hill or do a mud pit or a deep snow field without ever shifting gears. Dial that in, even if it means using worse axle gears like 4.11s in instead of 4.88s.

People get stuck when they lose momentum and shift. If your first gear is too low and can't get wheel speed and 2nd is too high and can't pull, thats poor axle gearing.

In my experience, with a standard 6 or 8 cyl (stock engines) and typical power/weight, something about 215 rpm per mph is ideal for this gear, and then adjust in either direction for your setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cerial View Post
Have you considered lowering your power curve with a comp cam/intake letting you drop your idle speed letting the clutch grab in the power curve avoiding the chugging.
If he's got a stock 4.3, I would think he's already set there.
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