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Old December 10th, 2011, 09:21 PM   #1
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Default broken bolts

so i broke the heads off of the bolts holding my cross member up. im ready to put it back together now and i've tried welding a nut onto the stud and it didnt work, then i tried drilling out the bolts and it looks like it's going to take me all weekend and possibly next weekend with the drill bits i have. was thinking about going to sears and buying a small hole saw to cut it out. then weld a bolt in the hole to make it a stud and use a nut to hold up the cross member (similar to how your tires are held on)
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Old December 10th, 2011, 09:27 PM   #2
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really frustrated and need ideas on this.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 09:51 PM   #3
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Not the best way but if your careful you can torch the nut off and the stud should then knock out. I have done that numerous times with stuff like that, just be careful with where you aim the torch so your not cutting the frame.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 10:33 PM   #4
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Not the best way but if your careful you can torch the nut off and the stud should then knock out. I have done that numerous times with stuff like that, just be careful with where you aim the torch so your not cutting the frame.
don't have a torch, only have map gas
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Old December 10th, 2011, 11:10 PM   #5
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The only other thing i can think of is weld a nut to the stud again and let it cool, then heat the piss out of the bolts nut to expand it and then try getting the bolt out.
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Old December 10th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #6
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was trying to do that might try again tomorrow
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Old December 11th, 2011, 11:24 AM   #7
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Never any good way to fix this. Usually if you can get the welded stud to break free the best suggestion can you fish a new nut or bolt to that location and get access through a hole or slot in the frame. This is the hardest to repair at a future date.

Next would be to add to the frame in the form of an 'outrigger' to both skid plate and frame. That way the nut and bolt will always be accessable.

Final suggestion would be to try and use a nut-sert. Usually the largest size is 3/8-16.

http://www.amazon.com/8-16-Nutsert-I.../dp/B000NC4NY4

You'll need a tool to install these so it may be the costliest depending on your fabrication capabilities or friends.

These bolts need to be heavily coated with anti-sieze before reassembling or you will go through this again and again.

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Old December 11th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #8
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Nutserts are really cool but will spin in the hole if the new bolt seizes. Then the fun really begins! Drill your broken bolts out, then drill and tap for the next larger size. The less coarse the better. 3/8-24 is what I would try to get back in there.

Last edited by schanxj; December 11th, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:32 PM   #9
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talked to my dad today and he came and looked at it. i was able to get through one bolt but i found out that the one i coulnd't get through was because i broke my easy out off inside of it so it's got a hardened steel piece in it. was going to talk to my boss tomorrow about borrowing the torch from work. was gonna cut slots in my frame, heat up the bolts and break the inside nut off, then weld a new nut in it's place and weld the slots in the frame back onto the frame. not what i want to do at all but i am running out of ideas and this is holding me up from moving onto the next steps of the rebuild.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:33 PM   #10
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i would just weld this bastard up in there but in about a year or 2 im going to do an engine/ trans swap.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schanxj View Post
Nutserts are really cool but will spin in the hole if the new bolt seizes. Then the fun really begins! Drill your broken bolts out, then drill and tap for the next larger size. The less coarse the better. 3/8-24 is what I would try to get back in there.
Coarser thread will be less apt to corrode and loose threads like fine threads do when you try to remove it in a year or two. My 40 odd years experience talking here. I would go with 3/8-16 instead

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talked to my dad today and he came and looked at it. i was able to get through one bolt but i found out that the one i coulnd't get through was because i broke my easy out off inside of it so it's got a hardened steel piece in it. was going to talk to my boss tomorrow about borrowing the torch from work. was gonna cut slots in my frame, heat up the bolts and break the inside nut off, then weld a new nut in it's place and weld the slots in the frame back onto the frame. not what i want to do at all but i am running out of ideas and this is holding me up from moving onto the next steps of the rebuild.
Rather than try and weld the nut in I would weld a tab on the nut or bolt that would prevent rotation of the bolt while inside the frame rail. I'm not so sure how you would weld a nut INSiDE the frame rail if you can't even get in there to hold it. You may see these types of solution in OEMs all the time.

If you cut a hole/slot in the frame rail I would NOT do it with a torch. Instead get a 3/4" drill and space two holes about an inch and a half apart and then use a cut off wheel to connect the two. Do not leave any stress riser in the frame as that the first place a crack will start from.
The slot just needs to be big enough to get your bolt or nut through with the anti-rotate tab on it. Plus you may need to get you finger in there to get it lined up and started.

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Old December 11th, 2011, 01:54 PM   #12
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I've got nuts welded into my frame for my skid plate. Used a hole saw just large enough for the nut to fit up inside tightly then welded it all up around it.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 02:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb8ymf View Post
Coarser thread will be less apt to corrode and loose threads like fine threads do when you try to remove it in a year or two. My 40 odd years experience talking here. I would go with 3/8-16 instead



Rather than try and weld the nut in I would weld a tab on the nut or bolt that would prevent rotation of the bolt while inside the frame rail. I'm not so sure how you would weld a nut INSiDE the frame rail if you can't even get in there to hold it. You may see these types of solution in OEMs all the time.

If you cut a hole/slot in the frame rail I would NOT do it with a torch. Instead get a 3/4" drill and space two holes about an inch and a half apart and then use a cut off wheel to connect the two. Do not leave any stress riser in the frame as that the first place a crack will start from.
The slot just needs to be big enough to get your bolt or nut through with the anti-rotate tab on it. Plus you may need to get you finger in there to get it lined up and started.

Jim-kb8ymf
i just bought 4 cut off wheels for my angle grinder the torch is to heat the fukc out of the broken stud and hopefully break off the nut on the inside. the idea is to cut a hole large enough for a hang to fit in there. was thinking that i could put the nut up there, thread the bolt in from the outside to hold the nut in place, tac it in there so it wont move, remove the bolt and finish welding up as much as i can reach. then repeat these steps for ALL 6 BOLTS THAT I BROKE. damn clutch change has been a nightmare lol
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Old December 11th, 2011, 02:02 PM   #14
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I've got nuts welded into my frame for my skid plate. Used a hole saw just large enough for the nut to fit up inside tightly then welded it all up around it.
was thinking about doing this but i only have a flux welder and don't think i'll get enough penetration on the nut to actually hold it on there.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 03:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
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i just bought 4 cut off wheels for my angle grinder the torch is to heat the fukc out of the broken stud and hopefully break off the nut on the inside. the idea is to cut a hole large enough for a hang (d)to fit in there.
HOLY CRAP!
Quote:
was thinking that i could put the nut up there, thread the bolt in from the outside to hold the nut in place, tac it in there so it wont move, remove the bolt and finish welding up as much as i can reach. then repeat these steps for ALL 6 BOLTS THAT I BROKE. damn clutch change has been a nightmare lol
So how long do you expect the tack to hold? You think that tack will hold next time you remove the bolt! HA! Maybe you haven't spent enough time working on Michigan vehicles.
If your going to do a tempory fix like that which will NOT be removable once you spend a winter in Michigan, why not just weld the skidplate to the frame.
I don't like to do things twice. The anti rotate tab on a nut is the best solution that you won't regret in two years when you try to remove it.

j-kb8ymf

Last edited by kb8ymf; December 11th, 2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #16
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I used a plasma cutter to cut open small holes in the frame, pounded the stud out, drilled the hole a little bigger and then just used a nut and bolt with the nut inside the frame. Hole is just big enough to fit the wrench into.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 07:41 PM   #17
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When I had the stock skid on my tj I stripped out the weld nuts in the frame. My solution was to cut the bolts off flush with the frame, torch the remaining piece of bolt out and drill up through the hole and through the top of the frame. Used the same diameter bolt cut to length so it would not hit the tub.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 09:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb8ymf View Post
HOLY CRAP!


So how long do you expect the tack to hold? You think that tack will hold next time you remove the bolt! HA! Maybe you haven't spent enough time working on Michigan vehicles.
If your going to do a tempory fix like that which will NOT be removable once you spend a winter in Michigan, why not just weld the skidplate to the frame.
I don't like to do things twice. The anti rotate tab on a nut is the best solution that you won't regret in two years when you try to remove it.

j-kb8ymf
planed on fully welding the bolt in as much as possible the tac is just to hold it in place. don't wanna weld the cross member to the frame because in a year or 2 i'll be changing out the engine and trans.
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Old December 11th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb8ymf View Post
Coarser thread will be less apt to corrode and loose threads like fine threads do when you try to remove it in a year or two. My 40 odd years experience talking here. I would go with 3/8-16 instead

Jim-kb8ymf
The sole purpose for suggesting a fine thread was to have more threads making contact in the relatively thin thickness of the frame. With anti-seize removal later down the road should be easier.
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Old December 15th, 2011, 04:06 PM   #20
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I'm with Sandals on this. I went through all the trouble of tacking a new nut in only to have a repeat of the problem as kb8ymf said would happen (spun the next time I needed to remove it). After that, I switched to a hole big enough to get a wrench in and would use a little tape to hold the nut in the wrench until it was started.
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