Unimog axles in a tj - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 26th, 2011, 07:06 AM   #21
Flat_Black
The Dodge Guy
 
Flat_Black's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-30-07
Location: Shepherd
Posts: 5,493
iTrader: (87)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Flat_Black Send a message via Yahoo to Flat_Black
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
haven't heard of them. are they a portal axle?
Click to View Search Results for Volvo+C303+axles Google: Volvo+C303+axles
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman Offroad View Post
"Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional"
Quote:
Originally Posted by kickstand View Post
my old lady was hoping for 3-5" tonight, but I'll be home, so she'll be lucky to get 2" as well.
Flat_Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 26th, 2011, 09:20 AM   #22
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,479
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

The cake is a lie.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26th, 2011, 09:50 AM   #23
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,612
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

There was a TJ on C303 axles in a crawl mag a few years ago. They are somehwere between a D44 and D60 strength stock, I believe.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 27th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #24
isuzutruggy?
Kreepy Krawlerz Off Road
 
isuzutruggy?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-15-09
Location: traverse city michigan
Posts: 646
iTrader: (4)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
Nice hijack.

who cares?
isuzutruggy? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2011, 04:33 PM   #25
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,745
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
There was a TJ on C303 axles in a crawl mag a few years ago. They are somehwere between a D44 and D60 strength stock, I believe.
Yea the 303 is less strength then the Dana 60. But the weight savings over the 404/406 is a few hundred pounds. And the cost is a lot less to make it into a nice off road axle. Also the width is comparable to what you have in the tj now. Look on pirate there are a few people building them with parts beefed.

I'm not into portal axles due to the low speed requirements making it a 45mph and under axle making it a short range/low speed axle. But for ground clearance for the cost of around a Dana 60 it is a good option.

The fact that he is looking at putting that heavy frito lay engine in there may be another reason to go with the 406 though.

http://lucienfrelin.com/jeepbuild/tag/frito-lay/

There are lighter/better diesel options out there if you want to go the diesel route. Don't get me wrong it is a cool engine(i'm just not a diesel nut knowing how picky they can be) I'm just saying there are lighter options.

http://youtu.be/Rugr6XdFJwQ
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #26
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

thanks for all the links and help from everyone so far, i am learning a lot.

i've been looking at the 303's and reading several articles on them. i didn't realize that portals had such a low speed rating. i don't do very much road running, just they occasional from the house or hotel to a trail head. is there any portals that can be run at 65 mph for lets say, an hour, if need be? if i put portals under my jeep am i eliminating all hopes of driving it down the road like normal? maybe i have to run a more traditional axles and forget abouth the extra ground clearanc that a portal provides.

as for diesel powerplants, what other options are favorable for jeeps. i referred to the 4bt because i had read other articles where it was used and people had lots of good things to say about it. i started looking around and i found two of them at a local heavy truck shop that were readily available.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2011, 06:22 AM   #27
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,479
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

IMHO, if you're worried about running 65 mph and portals, maybe they're not for you? Lot of capable rigs out there without them.

As for what other diesel fits - a 6.2/6.5 GM diesel is relatively light weight and not too different than a SBC install. Before choosing a diesel, I ask you to consider a few things:
1. Do you like smelling like diesel exhaust?
2. Does your co-pilot like the smell of diesel exhaust?
3. Have you breathed diesel exhaust for hours on end?
4. Wheel with others often?

I'm not, contrary to popular belief) trying to be an asshole; I was dead-set on installing a 6.5L GM diesel in my old XJ. My reasoning was that is weighed about the same as the 4.0L, I'd get better fuel economy as a DD, and it would be pretty cool to have a low-rpm torque monster.

Then - I had the chance to wheel in a group that had one CUCV 6.2L Blazer. Awesome truck, set up nice, but every time I was behind him waiting for an obstacle, I'd get bathed in his exhaust and start feeling sick. I took several breaks just to get away from the smell and sick feeling.

Not saying everyone is that way, but after the not-so-warm reception from other people from my old PSD tow rig's exhaust, I dropped the idea of a diesel in a wheeling rig.

YMMV.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2011, 09:09 AM   #28
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,612
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Its funny, everyone likes the idea of a torquey engine, but, in just about any properly gear Jeep, torque isn't a problem. My Jeep with 258, 37s, and just a 3 speed auto and 4.10s, torque was never ever an issue. Heck, my Toyota with 38.5s and a 4 cyl crawled up everything, it was just an issue of no horsepower.

Its horsepower that just about everyone needs. Spin the wheels to get wheelspeed and heat the tread, get through deep snow, climb hills, sand dunes, mud, etc.

4BTs are what, 130hp and about 750 lbs. So adding 200lbs to the nose, and you'll have to dowork just to get get up to a stock 4.0 horsepower level, which is already underpowered for a Jeep.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #29
ScOoTeR
hoo dat. wat.
 
ScOoTeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Howell
Posts: 21,479
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Its funny, everyone likes the idea of a torquey engine, but, in just about any properly gear Jeep, torque isn't a problem. My Jeep with 258, 37s, and just a 3 speed auto and 4.10s, torque was never ever an issue. Heck, my Toyota with 38.5s and a 4 cyl crawled up everything, it was just an issue of no horsepower.

Its horsepower that just about everyone needs. Spin the wheels to get wheelspeed and heat the tread, get through deep snow, climb hills, sand dunes, mud, etc.

4BTs are what, 130hp and about 750 lbs. So adding 200lbs to the nose, and you'll have to dowork just to get get up to a stock 4.0 horsepower level, which is already underpowered for a Jeep.
Good point - and I still think HP-induced wheelspin is silly while offroading.
__________________
@clarkstoncracker
ScOoTeR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2011, 01:09 PM   #30
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,612
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Good point - and I still think HP-induced wheelspin is silly while offroading.
But in sand, mud, snow, and loose hills, its often the only way to move. I can think of one snow run where I was climbing a hill with my toyota that no one else could make. If I dropped below 5000 rpm, the truck just sat stationary, once I got above that wheel speed, it'd move forward. SLowly, but it did. I even played with it a few times to see if it'd keep doing it, and it worked perfect everytime. Below 5000 rpm in single low, it'd stop, above it'd go. But I didn't have the horsepower to spin the wheels any faster, so it took a full 2 minutes at redline to climb that hill.

Thats the difference between torque and horsepower.

Torque is just that, torque, not considering gearing.
Horsepower is really wheel torque @ wheel speed.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30th, 2011, 07:11 PM   #31
cerial
Senior Member
 
cerial's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-06-08
Location: Caledonia,MI
Posts: 1,745
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

The volvo303 has a Max speed of 65mph. Which is faster then a mog but you still need to consider the heat generated at those speeds. The "cruising" speed for like a hour would be around 50 mph.
If you were to drive for that long day after day plan on constantly changing the fluid in the portals and checking the seals. In some cases they use different fluids in the portals then in the axles.
The fluid in the axles seal can rupture at higher temperatures putting additional fluid into the portal.
You would have no way of telling this if you did not constantly check the portal level.

The portal left unchecked then overfills and that seal ruptures. The fluid goes out the portal seal and then it begins to run dry. The portal gears will chew them self's up quickly at 50 mph.

The aftermarket has a fix with better seals. But that is a example of what can happen at higher speeds.

Portals are good for clearance and the 303 is rather simplistic in design compared to a 404. They can be beefed to be a very impressive off road axle. But have no real place on dry pavement.

As far as the diesel. Consider the geling that happens in the winter, The additional cost of everything, the weight, and the fact that you really need a turbo or it is a dog which means more parts and cost.
cerial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2011, 08:54 AM   #32
mschaffer66
Senior Member
 
mschaffer66's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 9,205
iTrader: (17)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
thanks for all the links and help from everyone so far, i am learning a lot.

i've been looking at the 303's and reading several articles on them. i didn't realize that portals had such a low speed rating. i don't do very much road running, just they occasional from the house or hotel to a trail head. is there any portals that can be run at 65 mph for lets say, an hour, if need be? if i put portals under my jeep am i eliminating all hopes of driving it down the road like normal? maybe i have to run a more traditional axles and forget abouth the extra ground clearanc that a portal provides.

as for diesel powerplants, what other options are favorable for jeeps. i referred to the 4bt because i had read other articles where it was used and people had lots of good things to say about it. i started looking around and i found two of them at a local heavy truck shop that were readily available.
Are you building a Jeep to wheel or a Jeep to DD? If you are building a Jeep to wheel why be concerned with how it drives on the road? If you are building a Jeep to DD why go nutty with custom everything?

At one point, until a wise little grasshopper talked some sense into me, I wanted a Jeep that was very capable on the trail, but still streetable. Why? Why should I give up off road ability just so I can drive it to DQ once a month?

It really comes down to off road toys are for off road and on road vehicles are for daily driving. Be honest with yourself and don't handicap the vehicle with pipe dreams.

Also, once again per the wise little grasshopper, with portals you need to think about packaging and the extra challenges that brings with everything sitting 6" above the axle. Either you get creative with the torch on your tub or you end up with something retardedly tall like that MBRP JK they are building.

I used to love the idea of portals, but I have since realized that its not worth it. And considering how few full body rigs out there you see with them I think that's probably the common consensus...but good luck anyway.

Just my $.02...
mschaffer66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 31st, 2011, 09:12 PM   #33
Fullsize4life
Kicking Cancers ASS
 
Fullsize4life's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-06
Location: Hart, Mi (next to silver lake)
Posts: 18,755
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
Nice hijack.
Id like to know where the pick in your avatar was taken? It looks to me it was taken at Marble head on DI,
Fullsize4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2011, 09:32 AM   #34
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullsize4life View Post
Id like to know where the pick in your avatar was taken? It looks to me it was taken at Marble head on DI,
it is marblehead. that pic was taken a few years ago, before they put the big boulders in the way of driving right to the edge.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2011, 10:05 AM   #35
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschaffer66 View Post
Are you building a Jeep to wheel or a Jeep to DD? If you are building a Jeep to wheel why be concerned with how it drives on the road? If you are building a Jeep to DD why go nutty with custom everything?

At one point, until a wise little grasshopper talked some sense into me, I wanted a Jeep that was very capable on the trail, but still streetable. Why? Why should I give up off road ability just so I can drive it to DQ once a month?

It really comes down to off road toys are for off road and on road vehicles are for daily driving. Be honest with yourself and don't handicap the vehicle with pipe dreams.

Also, once again per the wise little grasshopper, with portals you need to think about packaging and the extra challenges that brings with everything sitting 6" above the axle. Either you get creative with the torch on your tub or you end up with something retardedly tall like that MBRP JK they are building.

I used to love the idea of portals, but I have since realized that its not worth it. And considering how few full body rigs out there you see with them I think that's probably the common consensus...but good luck anyway.

Just my $.02...
good thoughts. i am building this for off road first, and if i can drive it to DQ once a month, so be it. if not, i'll take the truck. i trailer it every where we go and i have an offroad course, complete with hills, creeks, culvert piles, etc, etc... right at our house that i love to play on.

with that being said, the jeep is officially for sale. first reasonable offer can take it home. my wife and i added up our total investment in it (i don't ever recommend doing that, its scary how much you get it them) and we are around the $35,000 mark. (that's all pieces and parts, no labor costs, and includes the original, stock, purchase price of $15,000) I'd like to get $17,000 for it.

i think i was a little unrealistic with what i wanted to do. if i really want to run portals and 49's, i think i need to build a buggy of some sorts, or start with a fairly stock jeep that i can cut up and build on. the tj works great in its current form and i guess i don't want to cut it all up. i've got way too much money into it to throw it all away and start over. the jeep is immaculate inside and out, and very well taken care of. it has never seen a snow flake and always stored inside. it only has 70,000 miles on it. i bought it, stock, 6 years ago with 53,000 miles on it.

anyone interested, please let me know.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2011, 11:50 AM   #36
mschaffer66
Senior Member
 
mschaffer66's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 9,205
iTrader: (17)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by outback20 View Post
my wife and i added up our total investment in it (i don't ever recommend doing that, its scary how much you get it them) and we are around the $35,000 mark. (that's all pieces and parts, no labor costs, and includes the original, stock, purchase price of $15,000) I'd like to get $17,000 for it.
How in gods name did you spend $20k on coil overs, 37's with rims, a long arm kit, a detroit, and some chromo shafts?
mschaffer66 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2011, 01:14 PM   #37
outback20
Outback 20
 
outback20's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-22-09
Location: Grant, Mi
Posts: 68
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

LMAO!!! that's exactly what my wife said. well long story short, the initial buy of the fabtech 8" krawler lift with coilover shocks and 5-37x14x17 irok's with wheels was just a fuzz under 10k. not cheap by any means. i know the price on some of this has come down since i bought it but, that's what it was then. the rest is just a blur but poison spider bumpers, rockers, drop down tire carrier and other various armor, plus powder coating aint cheap, and warn doesn't give power plant winches away either. borla stainless steel header and exhaust system, sent trans out to be built up, teraflex sway bar setups, lockers, gears and carriers, axle shafts, etc, etc, etc....

i'm sure you've had builds before that if you were to go back and add up everything you've put into them it would suprise you. it's not always the big purchases that cost the most, it's the constant little things that you keep adding that break the bank.
outback20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2011, 02:48 PM   #38
bsharp704
Newbie
 
bsharp704's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-16-10
Location: Grant, MI.
Posts: 13
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Outback 20, i say just buy a JK Unlimited and start with that. LMAO, you know why.
bsharp704 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.29546 seconds with 76 queries