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Old September 20th, 2006, 02:00 PM   #1
RyeBread
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Default I wonder, if perhaps some DeVoss supports will change their tune after this...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...EWS99/60920015

Quote:
DeVos: Intelligent design should be taught in Michigan's science classes

By KATHY BARKS HOFFMAN
ASSOCIATED PRESS
September 20, 2006
LANSING — Republican gubernatorial candidate Dick DeVos says Michigan’s science curriculum should include a discussion about intelligent design.

He says including intelligent design along with evolution would help students discern the facts among different theories.

“I would like to see the ideas of intelligent design — that many scientists are now suggesting is a very viable alternative theory — that that theory and others that would be considered credible would expose our students to more ideas, not less,” DeVos told the Associated Press this week during an interview on education.

Intelligent design’s proponents hold that living organisms are so complex they must have been created by a higher force rather than evolving from more primitive forms. Some want science teachers to teach that Darwin’s theory of evolution is not a fact and has gaps.

However, a federal judge in December barred the school system in Dover, Pa., from teaching intelligent design alongside evolution in high school biology classes. The judge said that intelligent design is religion masquerading as science, and that teaching it alongside evolution violates the separation of church and state.

Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm has said that Michigan schools need to teach the established theory of evolution in science classes and not include intelligent design, but can explore intelligent design in a current events or a comparative religions class.

The State Board of Education last week postponed adopting new science curriculum guidelines until state lawmakers get more time to weigh in on what the state’s public schools science curriculum should be and how it should approach the teaching of evolution.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 02:31 PM   #2
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The problem with ID is that there is no end to the arguement. IE: if say some other race made humans, who would have made them? If God almighty made humans, who made God? From a scientific standpoint on that argument alone, ID does not work as a science curriculum candidate. Philosophy fine, but not science. If ID were taught from the perspective that another race played the creator role, at least that would have some grounding in science.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 02:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
The problem with ID is that there is no end to the arguement. IE: if say some other race made humans, who would have made them? If God almighty made humans, who made God? From a scientific standpoint on that argument alone, ID does not work as a science curriculum candidate. Philosophy fine, but not science. If ID were taught from the perspective that another race played the creator role, at least that would have some grounding in science.
I didn't intend for this to turn into an ID vs. other theories debate, only to wonder if some of the staunch supporters of DeVoss on this forum might change their tune, even a little bit, as many indicated that they were devoutly against any form of religion, creationism, or ID theories whatsoever. Honestly, I do not think, that in our life time the "argument" will be settled, definitively for all, regardless of what is taught in schools.

*shrug*

Jenny wasn't left with much to work with, but she sure as shit didn't do anything to turn things around. That being said, there are some things about DeVoss that certainly make me uneasy - and part of that is much the same when pondering whether to vote for any challenger - the fear of the unknown, and hidden agenda's... (but this too wasn't the original intent/theme of my original post)
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Old September 20th, 2006, 02:36 PM   #4
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God is both Alpha and Omega . . the beginning and the end . . . Duh
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Old September 20th, 2006, 05:39 PM   #5
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Thanks for giving me another reason to vote for Devos.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 05:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
I didn't intend for this to turn into an ID vs. other theories debate, only to wonder if some of the staunch supporters of DeVoss on this forum might change their tune, even a little bit, as many indicated that they were devoutly against any form of religion, creationism, or ID theories whatsoever. Honestly, I do not think, that in our life time the "argument" will be settled, definitively for all, regardless of what is taught in schools.

*shrug*

Jenny wasn't left with much to work with, but she sure as shit didn't do anything to turn things around. That being said, there are some things about DeVoss that certainly make me uneasy - and part of that is much the same when pondering whether to vote for any challenger - the fear of the unknown, and hidden agenda's... (but this too wasn't the original intent/theme of my original post)


Well, here's a question then for you. What power do you think the governor has when it comes to the curriculum taught in the myriad of public school districts throughout Michigan?
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Old September 20th, 2006, 06:20 PM   #7
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Doesn't matter what he says he wants, it's not part of the humanist manifesto [written in 1930's].
For those who don't know what that is.. look it up ..
a handfull of people decided the way they wanted things and everyone of us has been 'programmed' to there plan for our whole lifes.

here is part of it.. http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html
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Old September 20th, 2006, 07:29 PM   #8
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The more theories the better as long as the theories have merit. Teach the baisics of each and let the kids decide on their own what they believe. I don't however know if I will vote for Devoss but I know I won't be voting for Jenny...
My .02
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Old September 20th, 2006, 08:00 PM   #9
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Is it too late to hit the Mega Millions and pull a Ross Perot? :tonka:
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Old September 20th, 2006, 08:15 PM   #10
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Hmmmmm! Someone that wants kids to study multiple theories and draw their own conclusions. Brilliant!!! Thanks Rye, I just decided my vote is a Devos one.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #11
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Not sure about the voting portion of this, but the man has a good point. I mean no malcontent here, but ID taught in a philosophy class as a viable OPTION to Darwins Theory of Evolution? Sure! Bang it out!

It'll never happen I'll bet, but it's a great thought. I don't know DeVoss' religious beliefs but I'm sure it's posted somewhere. But now the activists are going to come at him for being a 'bible thumper' when it appears he's just trying to put options in front of young minds and let them grow from it.

When it all comes down to it, NOBODY knows ABSOLUTELY the answers to evolution or the beginning of life on earth. Many have faith that they swear is the truth, but no hard evidence to back it up. Scientists can reasonable assume about Darwins theory, but are missing facts & evidence to back up the assumptions they make.

And Jenny... well it sounds like she's taking the "politically correct" way out.

My
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Old September 20th, 2006, 08:38 PM   #12
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That makes me want to vote for him more.

I agree with presenting all the popular theories, exploring which do or don't coinside with the physical evidence, and teaching kids to draw thier own conclusions, rather than presenting one theory and calling it fact.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:13 PM   #13
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i like the idea of teaching both and especially saying both have merit, neither can be proven, both have holes in them and really expand the kids minds. Those evolution 100 % exists, i think its dumb to think we grew from pond scum. There are many holes in evolution, it is a convience for athiests and close minded scientists that cant face the fact that science cant prove everything or solve everything, and despite having a phd they dont know everything.
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Old September 20th, 2006, 10:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn
That makes me want to vote for him more.

I agree with presenting all the popular theories, exploring which do or don't coinside with the physical evidence, and teaching kids to draw thier own conclusions, rather than presenting one theory and calling it fact.
I agree 100 percent.......

I do want to do some digging to see if I can gain any insite into his hidden agendas like mentioned above...(the current cheney, rumsfield type cluster in DC has me weary of all politicians)
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Old September 20th, 2006, 11:48 PM   #15
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She had her chance she has done nothing to help us up North but has taken a bunch away....... Bye Bye Aunt Jenny on my vote.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 06:26 PM   #16
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According to the news I saw this AM, he said he'd "support" teaching of intelligent design as an alternative theory alongside Darwinism. He specifically said he would not require it.

Sounds like someone trying to make a major issue out of essentially nothing.

And I'm with Bruce - what's wrong with presenting options, since they're both unproven theories? Sorta like "global warming", another theory that many want to treat as fact.
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