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Old October 14th, 2010, 09:55 AM   #1
John D
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Default Miles of Oceana County trees could fall to preserve Karner blue butterfly

Seems like the best place to put this.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muskegon/i...county_tr.html

So, we are going to cut 3500 acres of forest and close ten miles of forest roads to help out this little butterfly. This is really good, maybe better than the turtle fence. WTF is wrong with people?
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Old October 14th, 2010, 10:12 AM   #2
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If it helps the butterflies, why not?
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Old October 14th, 2010, 10:32 AM   #3
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This is kinda old news.
Those 10 miles of closed roads leave NO motorized, bike or horse traffic to the river.
Get your hiking boots out!
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Old October 14th, 2010, 10:54 AM   #4
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Tell them what you think:

Quote:
The Otto Township Board has scheduled a public meeting for Thursday to discuss the project — with Forest Service officials pointedly not invited to make a presentation. The meeting will follow the regular township board meeting set for 7 p.m. at Otto Township Hall, 5458 128th.
Quote:
Anyone interested in the proposal has until Oct. 25 to comment on it. That’s the end of the Forest Service’s 30-day public comment period.
Quote:
SUBMITTING COMMENTS
Comments postmarked by Oct. 25 should be submitted to:
• Christopher Frederick at Baldwin-White Cloud Ranger District, 650 N. Michigan Ave., Baldwin, Mich. 49304.
• Telephone: 231-745-4631, ext. 3138.
• Fax: 231-745-2345.
• E-mail: comments-eastern-huron-manistee-bald...loud@fs.fed.us
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Old October 15th, 2010, 04:45 AM   #5
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barely a mention of the cost of this in the article. Where is the money for this project coming from?
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Old October 15th, 2010, 06:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yota Bill View Post
barely a mention of the cost of this in the article. Where is the money for this project coming from?
A shiny new tax? or maybe a dingy old one.
There is always the misappropriation of funds to pay for it too.
Its being paid for in part by the sale of all those trees.

Its freakin gorgeous back there, all those tall pines, planted in nice straight lines. the way the bark looks red when the sun shines through them. The smell of the pines on a cool fall day.

Not for long!

The lupine they're going to plant will turn the area into an ugly scrubby looking mess, changing the landscape for eternity.
For what!?!
...To see if they can attract more butterflies...experimental at best, horribly sad at the very least.
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Old October 15th, 2010, 06:47 AM   #7
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This is why voting is so very important for our sport. You can bitch all you want but not getting out and voting is the worst thing you can do. Make sure the person you vote for believes that state land belongs to everyone in the state, not just people you want to keep you off it.
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Old October 15th, 2010, 07:58 AM   #8
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The part I fail to see is the side of the county. if they are dumb enough to let this happen then they get what they deserve. it would wipe out tax revenue forever for the area and crush their economy. they pulled this same shit out in Reno,Nv and it wasted the area. they closed a huge area there for a blue butterfly. the trick is they couldn't prove the closers were helping. same as the Tortoise in Utah they closed a 1,000,000 + acres and it still died off. did they reopen the land? nope.
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Old October 15th, 2010, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
The part I fail to see is the side of the county. if they are dumb enough to let this happen then they get what they deserve. it would wipe out tax revenue forever for the area and crush their economy. they pulled this same shit out in Reno,Nv and it wasted the area. they closed a huge area there for a blue butterfly. the trick is they couldn't prove the closers were helping. same as the Tortoise in Utah they closed a 1,000,000 + acres and it still died off. did they reopen the land? nope.
National Forest - these are jackasses at the federal level and they are usually unreasonable and hard to deal with at best. If it was county they might be able to be reasoned with.

And yes, once land is closed it rarely opens again.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #10
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(This would actually be a Land Use issue)

GLFWDA has teamed with Otto Twp to hire an attorney to assist with comments.
We have an appointment at 4:00pm today.

GLFWDA attended the Otto Twp meeting and was asked to speak on this issue. It was a VERY interesting meeting. The Twp Hall has room for about 20 people, so we had to have this portion of the meeting outside. There were 50-75 very angry and concerned citizens in attendance. Both Greenwood and Otto Township Boards are opposed to the Project too. There was a lot of talk about a Class Action Suit. I don't think this is possible until the proper process is fully exhausted. Other than CCC and an Equestrian group representative, nobody there had any idea there was a process, let alone that it MUST be followed or you loose your legal standing. I guess that it was a good thing that GLFWDA was asked to speak at the meeting.

Here's essentially what GLFWDA's advice was:


WHAT DO WE DO NOW?
• Write your specific, “substantive” comments about what you do and don’t like about THIS PROJECT SPECIFICALLY. If your comment is about something that is not part of this project as described by the National Forest Service (NFS), it will NOT be answered or considered. The NFS will deem it “Beyond the Scope of this Project” and reject your comment without considering it.

• Mail your comments “Return Receipt Requested” with the US Postal Service so that the comments will ARRIVE at the NFS ON OR BEFORE the official Comment Period due date. This will give you a receipt listing when and who in the NFS received your comments. This prevents them from trying to tell you that they never received them or they arrived too late and the receipt can be used in a Court of Law. SAVE YOUR RECEIPT until after any/all legal proceedings have concluded!!!

• Ask to receive the “Notice of Decision” (NOI) as part of your comments

• You have 45 days from the date the NOI was signed and dated to inform the NFS that you intend to Appeal their Decision

• You will be asked to participate in an “Informal Resolution Teleconference” with the Baldwin District, Cadillac Office and Region 9 (Cadillac is Baldwin’s boss and Region 9 is Cadillac’s boss). You MUST PARTICIPATE in the Teleconference.

• If the NFS does NOT give you what you asked for in your comments during the Teleconference, you may NOW OBTAIN AN ATTORNEY AND FILE YOUR APPEAL IN A COURT OF LAW.



If you wish to receive notice of these types of projects at the earliest possible point in time, ask the NFS to either (or both):

1. Place your name and address on the “SOPA” mailing list (Schedule Of Proposed Actions). This is a quarterly publication that lists all of the projects the NFS is going to undertake in the next 3 months. It is in a chart format with a column for the Project Name, the location where they plan to do the project, a brief (VERY brief) description of what they want to do, when they plan to do it and who in the NFS to contact to get more information about the project

2. Place your name and address on the SCOPING list. You will receive a detailed plan of EVERY project the NFS is going to undertake. Many of these will probably not interest you and you can discard them as you see fit, BUT some of them WILL interest you. This gives you the opportunity to participate in an additional, earlier comment period during which you can attempt to change what it is they are planning to do. This is called the “SCOPING COMMENT PERIOD” and occurs before the NFS issues its 3 choice, “215” document (like the one we are commenting on now).

REMEMBER! When dealing with the Forest Service, ALWAYS send your comments and questions “Return Receipt Requested” with the USPS.

The Comment Period for this Project ENDS OCTOBER 25th.

Colin, your Dad would probably earn a LOT of votes he might not otherwise get if he were to express some concern/opposition on this subject to the Twp Supervisor/Board. Maybe even have Pete write a comment to the NFS. I know he's awfully busy right now, but this is a hugely important issue to a great many citizens in his district.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; October 19th, 2010 at 06:47 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 07:50 AM   #11
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My father-in-law told me that his "old-timers" (Saturday coffee group)brought this subject up. The consensus was not good, and it was being compared to the turtle fence in a grander scale.

Lets hope they continue to spread the information to each other, and help remove from office, those of power responible for starting this.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 12:13 PM   #12
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• E-mail: comments-eastern-huron-manistee-bald...loud@fs.fed.us
FLOOD them with our comments!
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Old October 19th, 2010, 12:19 PM   #13
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ever seen the leota plains kirkland warbler habitat? lol @ michigan.
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Old October 19th, 2010, 01:25 PM   #14
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If they do it, just be sure to keep the matches and gas away from those fools!

NFS regarding Kirtland's Warbler habitat: Lets have a 28 acre controlled burn to help this little birdie = Kiss 24,000 acres, 41 homes and the life of James Lee Swiderski goodbye.

The NFS is out of control.
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