Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 18th, 2010, 02:21 PM   #21
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I would say, nice to be with Good Company. I have no insurance at the moment, nor have I had it out side of my parents Insurance. I will be getting it soon though, because I've worked at a Place and moved up to a position where I get it. I congratulate you on your good fortune that some others weren't lucky enough to have. I also respect your similarity to me, in that you like to brag about how well you're doing.

Sure, If we don't want to use it we dont' have to BUT we'll have to pay to not use it. That would be the Definition of making someone do something they shouldn't have to do. If I don't want health insurance, I shouldn't have to Pay to NOT have it.
Well you have to pay for roads and bridges and schools you might not use. And cops, and fire, etc. Get real.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 02:23 PM   #22
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
And Canadians pay through the nose for their health care that is bankrupting the country. It is not free by any means. The lines for the care needed are long and many people die waiting for life saving procedures that here in this country are done asap.
A friend of mine had his dad go in for a check up and they found a small quarter size spot on his lung, They said we need to get a biopsie of that and said they would make an appointment for him and let him know. Four months later that spot had grown and by the time they had a bed for him to do the surgery they removed his entire lung. If the cancer would have moved any faster he would have died and no surgery would be needed. That is only one story of people waiting to get care from a hospital in Canada.
If your not sick and only need to see a doctor once or twice a year maybe thats good but the taxes they they pay there are very high.
That happens on our side and theirs. Our system is not 100% either pal. We can all tell horror stories.

Oh yeah, as I keep saying, my wife DIED because she didn't have access to adequate healthcare. By the time I could get insurance for us she was TOO FAR GONE. I would rather pay high taxes so YOUR wife can get the care she needs if YOU suddenly don't have insurance, because I happen to care about something more than myself.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 02:30 PM   #23
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toast View Post
Instead of screwing around on a forum that discusses matters like this, try harder to find any job that can give them an income, i mean any type of income........I mean really.....seriously...... do you actually read what you type or is it just an involuntary regergitation of all the b.s. you hear and read on what ever left-winged propaganda shoveling web site or t.v. show that tugs at your blind heart strings.

Have you ever heard of triping and falling down, what happens next, ya get back up.....and hopefully you don't trip over the same thing twice.


BUST YOUR ASS EVERY DAY....AND IF THAT DOESN'T GET YOU WHAT YOU WANT, THEN WORK HARDER........


MAN!.........WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE THAT WANT EVERYTHING HANDED TO THEM OR PROVIDED FOR THEM BY THEIR GOVERNMENT.


What happens when a government povides something of great value and we condition ourselves to depend on it, then they take it away quicker than hey gave it.............and we have nothing to fall back on because the freebie droped the bottom of the market so low that free enterprise couldn't stay in business.....well then the government holds all the market and can charge what ever they want to who ever they want because there is no competition.

The writing is on the wall, open your eye's and read
I don't know why you're directing this at me. I have a great career and health coverage, etc.

No regurgitation here. I'm actually fairly involved in what's going on and our political process. I'm well versed on our Constitution and foudnign documents. I'm pretty well versed on the law too. I RARELY watch TV, and when I do it's Cops (I like that show, even if it is reruns). Sometimes working "harder" still fails us, and sometimes we can be overwhelmed by all that we have to deal with, and sometimes we need help. Maybe not you. Maybe you are unshakeable and able to conquer everything that stands in your way. For that I commend you. But not everyone is as incredible as you.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #24
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,945
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
No technological breakthroughs. Come on Rue, you know better. That's such BS.

And their government pays less per person for their healthcare than we do and most of our population HAS health insurance. And from my European experience, people are in excellent health. Hey, maybe you've spent more time there than me (shrug).

For me this isn't about whether or not people have THE RIGHT to healthcare, it's a matter of our being a society that CAN give helathcare to all but chooses not to. We can also end hunger in this nation. We can also make the change to renewable energy sources. Many American companies and individuals are already doing it with great success.

Funny how you are vehemently opposed to providing for all of us, but endorse making corporations less accountable to the American people, even when their headquarters are in another country, their earnings go to the Caymen Islands, and they outsource theri work all over the world.

Seems like you are against the good of the people, and more concerned with the good of the corporations.

Well, that's your right. I hope you are happy when we all live in the Corporate States of the Americas. (Psssst... That's what Mussolini wanted for Italy.).
I'm not against the good of the people, I am against the idea that the people should be handed the goods. Big difference.

Cite for me that "their country" - Europe is a country now? "pays less per person in healthcare". I call BS. Regardless, I have several times pasted links to articles illustrating the huge medical breakthroughs that come out of the United States.

On another subject, point to me the 'green' cars and 'green houses' in Europe that are self sustaining and have energy efficiencies that have come about in the past 5-10 year from Europe's oppressive energy policies? They are essentially non-existant. Hydrogen fuel cells? LOL that'll be the day. Virtually every form of 'renewable energy' choice has severe limitations, inefficiencies and/or problems with economies of scale. Oh yeah, and most of those greenthingies require very expensive/rare minerals that are largely controlled by despot communist countries. So, instead of mussolini you apparently prefer the yerrow people of Bejing...

Anyway, Europe is geographically much smaller than the US so their transportation needs are largely met through rail/bus. the folks that still somehow can manage to afford their own personal transportation most often are driving micro cars that Americans don't want, and/or won't be able to fit their families/lifestyles in - or are diesel.

Back to healthcare - have you been following their news sources coming out of England and the debacles centered around their socialized medicine?

Here's just a couple of articles worth of light reading on various subjects.

The Glorious NHS from England - a quick google search on England's NHS will reveal countless failures of their socialized medicine - denied coverage, delayed (months) coverage, denied pain management, etc., etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/79...-services.html


Cap&Trade - it's the cost stupid...
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_15670176


Integrity much? Smacks of do as I say, not as I do - just like Al Gore before him...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...04-503544.html


Yes, the Government clearly is doing an outstanding job with our economy.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...100154469.html


And again, none of it has anything to do with how we walk our walk baed upon our own individual works of service.
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM   #25
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
I'm not against the good of the people, I am against the idea that the people should be handed the goods. Big difference. You're missing the point Rye. We have evolved as a society to the point we should be able to cover everyone without the need for corporate middlemen. Their revenue is monstrous. The majority of us have and pay for health insurance, so paying the government would be no different, but at least then everyone gets covered.

Cite for me that "their country" - Europe is a country now? Where did I say it was?"pays less per person in healthcare". I call BS. Regardless, I have several times pasted links to articles illustrating the huge medical breakthroughs that come out of the United States. I agree. Many do. And they come out of other countries/continents too.

On another subject, point to me the 'green' cars and 'green houses' in Europe that are self sustaining and have energy efficiencies that have come about in the past 5-10 year from Europe's oppressive energy policies? They are essentially non-existant. Hydrogen fuel cells? Just google "renewable energy Europe" and read for yourself.LOL that'll be the day. Virtually every form of 'renewable energy' choice has severe limitations, inefficiencies and/or problems with economies of scale. And fossil fuel doesn't have problems? Okay, so it's expensive. So let's just abandon the whole idea. Damn Rye, why do you keep wanting to throw out the baby with the bath water? Multitudes of key events in our evolution were prhibitive at the start, but we persevered and found SOLUTIONS. So far you don't sound like you're trying to SOLVE ANYTHING. Just criticize it. Oh yeah, and most of those greenthingies require very expensive/rare minerals that are largely controlled by despot communist countries. So, instead of mussolini you apparently prefer the yerrow people of Bejing...

Anyway, Europe is geographically much smaller than the US so their transportation needs are largely met through rail/bus. Yeah, and we could create millions of jobs across the country building a clean pubic transportation across the continent, but I guess you are opposed to that too. the folks that still somehow can manage to afford their own personal transportation most often are driving micro cars that Americans don't want, and/or won't be able to fit their families/lifestyles in - or are diesel. Hmmmm... So BMW and Mercedes are "micro cars"? Since when?

Back to healthcare - have you been following their news sources coming out of England and the debacles centered around their socialized medicine?

Here's just a couple of articles worth of light reading on various subjects.

The Glorious NHS from England - a quick google search on England's NHS will reveal countless failures of their socialized medicine - denied coverage, delayed (months) coverage, denied pain management, etc., etc.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/79...-services.html


Cap&Trade - it's the cost stupid...
http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_15670176


Integrity much? Smacks of do as I say, not as I do - just like Al Gore before him...
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...04-503544.html


Yes, the Government clearly is doing an outstanding job with our economy.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...100154469.html


And again, none of it has anything to do with how we walk our walk baed upon our own individual works of service.
I can show you all kinds of sources for the massive and life threatening problems with our system too. But what would I gain from that? You obviously think it's perfect as it is.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 03:54 PM   #26
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,492
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

just wow
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 04:25 PM   #27
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Well you have to pay for roads and bridges and schools you might not use. And cops, and fire, etc. Get real.
Cops are needed. Firefighters are needed. I actually drive alot of Roads, bridges and visit more schools then most on here. I'm a School bus driver.

Healthcare is not an absolute necessity. Fire fighters can be Volunteer. Cops are very important because they keep the peace. Even so, they are being dwindled down in departments and equipment. I think they are a last resort. Schools, Obviously, are also last resort and are Struggling to get by as it is. Trust me, I know, I work for one and have been to the board meetings. Roads are very needed because if you don't have roads, you don't have a majority of Freight, which means a lack of Goods, which means a even worst economy.

Even with all those examples, none of them are run by the Federal Government. Only state, if any Governmental Control at all. So, I guess I would ask where are we goign to get the money? And if we have the ability to get that extra (Large amount) of money why can't we put them to use somewhere more important like schools or Police officers or Fire fighters....etc...

I also want to be clear to say I was not bragging. I'm fortunate enough to have the (soon) ability to get health insurance. Only by the hand of God has that been made a Reality. Oh and BTW, I make 1200 a month. I am not, by comparison to average america, doing well. I'm just below the Poverty line.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #28
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Cops are needed. Firefighters are needed. I actually drive alot of Roads, bridges and visit more schools then most on here. I'm a School bus driver.

Healthcare is not an absolute necessity. Easy to say when you're young and healthy. The cost to our nation because people can't get health insurance is astromical. I think it's an economic imperative. Fire fighters can be Volunteer. SO you think you're going to get enough FULL TIME firefighters across every major city in this country on a volunteer basis? Cops are very important because they keep the peace. Even so, they are being dwindled down in departments and equipment. I think they are a last resort. Schools, Obviously, are also last resort HUH?!?!? So you think that educating the people is a "last resort"? So ignorance is better? Oh wait, you would probably rather just teach them the bible and that god will provide, right?and are Struggling to get by as it is. Trust me, I know, I work for one and have been to the board meetings. Roads are very needed because if you don't have roads, you don't have a majority of Freight, which means a lack of Goods, which means a even worst economy.

Even with all those examples, none of them are run by the Federal Government. Only state, if any Governmental Control at all. Let's take an extreme example... Space travel. Obviusly you don't see any need for it since you already know how we got here and don't need to know what's out there, but if it wasn't for space travel (a federal expenditure) we wouldn't be able to do MANY things that we do today. I cannot even BEGIN to cover all the benefits to the entire planet that our ventures in to space have brought us. But you don't go there, so I guess you shouldn't have to pay for it. So, I guess I would ask where are we goign to get the money? If we rolled back the Reagan and Bush tax cuts to the wealthy and returned us to the tax structure we had for over 30 years of America's greatest prosperity, THAT'S how we would pay for it. And if we have the ability to get that extra (Large amount) of money why can't we put them to use somewhere more important like schools or Police officers or Fire fighters....etc... Again, roll back the tax cuts.

I also want to be clear to say I was not bragging. I'm fortunate enough to have the (soon) ability to get health insurance. Only by the hand of God has that been made a Reality. Apparently god hasn't been so generous to all. Oh and BTW, I make 1200 a month. I am not, by comparison to average america, doing well. I'm just below the Poverty line.
But you sounded so satisfied with minimum wage. Did I misunderstand?
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 04:54 PM   #29
dougstephvoor
Supreme Chancelor!
 
dougstephvoor's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-21-10
Location: Saranac/Michigan
Posts: 2,197
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Our government ALREADY pays billions for people that can't get insurance. A universal system would cost us far less, and this has been proven over and over.

I guess you're lucky enough to have insurance. Good for you. I guarantee you there's at least a dozen people on this sitethat have been out of work for a while now and couldn't afford COBRA, and have families, and have no insurance. What say you to them?
I say to them and to you. Hopefully the lack of health care provides you with motivation to get a job, and work your way out of the situation you are in.

Their are simply people out their that an employeer can not be profitable at employing them.

Their is little motivation for any one to work right now.

Our government provides, free food, housing, electricity, cable TV, free cell phone, medical care, birth control, transportation.

Name one thing that is a necessity, that a non working person does not have, that a working person does have.

Through the history of time, their was at miniomum the motivation to feed and house your self, or you would die.

There is no motivation.

What I say to you and them, I do not owe you a fucking thing, go to work, get a job, stop depending on the "government" to provide you with any thing for free, the "government" is the people around you that are working to support them selves, and now the burden of you and them.
dougstephvoor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 05:29 PM   #30
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,913
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
But you sounded so satisfied with minimum wage. Did I misunderstand?
I'm goign to try and answer the red. Here we go.....

Healthcare is important for older people. That's why you work hard and get in a Career that gives you healthcare. Benefits are not called Benefits because they are mandatory. Benefits are incentive to do well. If we wanted to go with your idea, the proper word would be "Hand outs". "Yeah, I get hand outs with my 401k". I see it as something you earn. That idea, in this country, is far and gone. We need to earn things and most people think we should all get something right away with no work.

I know plenty of Small towns that have Volunteer fire fighters. Maybe one Paid Chief. Maybe.

I meant schools should be the last thing cut, not the first.

Space travel. We've learned tons from Space travel. I have no problem with it. I enjoy it because it prove my suspicion of God all the time. It's a great tool, science, that is. With this thinking, though, we should fund more star trek TV shows. Do you realize the amount of things that have come about because of Star trek? Cell phones, MRI's, Sliding Doors, ETC. The Captian Kirk tax. Awesome.

Seriously though, Space Exploration makes sense to run as a Federal Governmental Agency. It's not controlling the mass populous. It's not even putting rules and regulations on what we can/cannot do. Healthcare would.

The people of this country are no longer the same people as in the 50's, or what ever year you put. If we had people that took responsibility for thier job, their families, thier country, we wouldn't be in this situation. To say "It'll be just like the good old days" is Ludicris. The people are no longer like they where then and the people are what makes our country great. Not the Polocies or agencies of the Federal Government.

If anything, I'd be about State control. When you're a boss of a Big company you don't talk to everyone, you don't know every single one of your employee's personally. You have people that are under you that are supposed to be doing that. It's the order of things. The State, in this analogy, is more personal and can tailor healthcare to thier residents better then a Blanket control. Either way, I'm agianst ANY government control of healthcare.

Oh, I'm perfectly Content with Minimum wage at my ONE job. I make 10-15 in my other 3. I, in the case of that job, needed money to supplement the lack of hours in my bus job. No school = not to many hours. It was the first job I found and I took it. I'd rather work for minimum wage then collect unemployment. Once agian. I'm young and can do this because I have a great support group.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 11:01 PM   #31
Stan
I got a gold chain
 
Stan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Shelby Twp.
Posts: 15,655
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I don't know why you're directing this at me. I have a great career and health coverage, etc.

No regurgitation here. I'm actually fairly involved in what's going on and our political process. I'm well versed on our Constitution and foudnign documents. I'm pretty well versed on the law too. I RARELY watch TV, and when I do it's Cops (I like that show, even if it is reruns). Sometimes working "harder" still fails us, and sometimes we can be overwhelmed by all that we have to deal with, and sometimes we need help. Maybe not you. Maybe you are unshakeable and able to conquer everything that stands in your way. For that I commend you. But not everyone is as incredible as you.
You sir have no common sense at all and you are not well versed on anything but progressive bullshit.
You have no understanding of economics or how a business is run successfully.
I'm sorry for the loss of your wife but if you think a government run healthcare system would have been better, you're a moron.

You have proven yourself over and over again to be quite a simpleton.

You have made mention of corporations moving "offshore" and taking the money and running. Do you know why they do that?
What would change all that over night? Do you really have any idea? More federal regulations I'm sure would be your answer.

Last edited by Stan; August 18th, 2010 at 11:05 PM.
Stan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:00 AM   #32
two_much_talk
sit down shut up and ...
 
two_much_talk's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-13-06
Location: MI
Posts: 5,654
iTrader: (32)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
... I do not owe you a thing, go to work, get a job, stop depending on the "government" to provide you with any thing for free, the "government" is the people around you that are working to support them selves, and now the burden of you and them.
yup, too many people are willing to let the government programs take care of them. I know a lot of people who don't even want to look for a job that is less than their last job.

I never understood the pride that some people have either. Some people would rather apply for every possible gov hand out than get rid of any non-essential in their life till they could get themselves back on their feet financially.

A gov run health care system sounds like more politics of the moment. "I push for a socialistic health care system so I look good to voters."

Sounds like the poor get poorer and the rich get richer thinking...
two_much_talk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 06:39 AM   #33
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,079
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
That happens on our side and theirs. Our system is not 100% either pal. We can all tell horror stories.

Oh yeah, as I keep saying, my wife DIED because she didn't have access to adequate healthcare. By the time I could get insurance for us she was TOO FAR GONE. I would rather pay high taxes so YOUR wife can get the care she needs if YOU suddenly don't have insurance, because I happen to care about something more than myself.
Yes it does happen on our and that is because some carry no heath insurance. In Canada the health care is provided by their government, another poorly run program from the government. They pay for the health care through thier contributions to the health care system. With the costs being so high they cannot afford to care for all the people that need care(long lines waiting). Our health care will be worse because of more people wanting care and less doctors to care for the sick. At this point the government cannot run medicare or medicaid properly, how do you see them running a national health care system? More people will die with that in place than the way it is being run now.
Tell us how it is that you care for more than just yourself? Actions speak louder tham words my friend.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 07:42 AM   #34
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,945
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I can show you all kinds of sources for the massive and life threatening problems with our system too. But what would I gain from that? You obviously think it's perfect as it is.
you obviously think your assumptions are correct when they are far from it.

I have never stated our system is perfect, however, making something worse is not typically the way to make it better. Remember a few months ago when one of the Canadian Provincial Governors flew to Florida for a medical procedure instead of dealing with his country's socialized medicine?

Oh, and still waiting to see what miracle green energy solutions have come out of Europe due to the oppressive pressures of their anti-oil energy policies...

Quote:
most often are driving micro cars that Americans don't want, and/or won't be able to fit their families/lifestyles in - or are diesel. Hmmmm... So BMW and Mercedes are "micro cars"? Since when?
emphasis added, and yes Mercedes has an a-class 'micro car' - it was the precursor to our "Smart Car" - oh yeah, but due to differences in regulatory policies theirs actually gets reasonable gas mileage where the version in the US struggles to beat the mpg of a 4 passenger civic or focus.

Top European Sales Stats 2008 - 2009. Hint: One year later in a world wide recession it didn't miraculously change to full sized trucks, and mid/large sized sedans.


re: your comment about creating "millions of jobs" creating a clean transportation grid - what's the point if there's no industry/economy that needs it? Worse, you really trust the Government's handling of the bid process and corporations that actually do the work? You talk out of both sides of your mouth.


and AGAIN. The point about works of service has nothing to do with our PERSONAL works of service. I'll even rebut yours top level statement:

Quote:
I'm not against the good of the people, I am against the idea that the people should be handed the goods. Big difference. You're missing the point Rye. We have evolved as a society to the point we should be able to cover everyone without the need for corporate middlemen. Their revenue is monstrous. The majority of us have and pay for health insurance, so paying the government would be no different, but at least then everyone gets covered.
and state that YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT. Just because we can do something does not mean we SHOULD. We could supply every man woman and child with a firearm so they can exercise their CONSTITUTIONAL right to bear arms. Should we? (I already know your answer) Why the hell not?

We could put a man on Mars. But seriously at what level of effort and expense? Also your point re: Revenue - that's a huge misleading statement and anyone that took even highschool accounting or economics knows that gross revenue is a meaningless statistic. One needs to look at marginal revenue, internal rates of returns etc., etc. instead of simply looking at their "astonishing revenue". I'll even go forward and offer up the ever failing United States Postal Service as an example where Government essentially had a monopoly that they ran so inefficiently that they can't even compete even with their tax exempt status. Sickening when even with saddled with corporate middlemen that the private sector still does things more efficiently than the Government and even manages to eke out a profit...

If, and I say IF their actual profits grossly exceed market profit from a supply/demand curve then there would be more players in the market which in turn drives supply up, and pushes the price point back down. It's like the tree hugging granola eating limp wristed watchers of "Whale Wars" that drive a Prius wringing their hands when Shell Oil posts record gross profits - ignoring the trillions they spend ahead of time in planning, R&D and carrying costs.

For what it's worth - most major oil companies operate with a true long term projection - not the quarterly profit/loss statements that most of Wall Street are obsessed with. My baby brother has done some significant contract work with Shell and was astonished to see 15 and 25 year plans with discounted cash flow analsysis projected out. Makes the auto industries 3-5 year plans look laughable.

Last edited by RyeBread; August 19th, 2010 at 08:12 AM.
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #35
toast
i break stuff
 
toast's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-14-07
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 480
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Well put for the purposes of it's direction. I like it........I LIKE IT AAALLLOT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougstephvoor View Post
I say to them and to you. Hopefully the lack of health care provides you with motivation to get a job, and work your way out of the situation you are in.

Their are simply people out their that an employeer can not be profitable at employing them.

Their is little motivation for any one to work right now.

Our government provides, free food, housing, electricity, cable TV, free cell phone, medical care, birth control, transportation.

Name one thing that is a necessity, that a non working person does not have, that a working person does have.

Through the history of time, their was at miniomum the motivation to feed and house your self, or you would die.

There is no motivation.

What I say to you and them, I do not owe you a fucking thing, go to work, get a job, stop depending on the "government" to provide you with any thing for free, the "government" is the people around you that are working to support them selves, and now the burden of you and them.
toast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:17 PM   #36
two_much_talk
sit down shut up and ...
 
two_much_talk's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-13-06
Location: MI
Posts: 5,654
iTrader: (32)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

so if we want to claim to be "christians" we should be supporters of government run health care for all US citizens?
two_much_talk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 02:37 PM   #37
aber61
Senior Member
 
aber61's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-22-08
Location: Commerce Twp. Michigan
Posts: 6,079
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by two_much_talk View Post
so if we want to claim to be "christians" we should be supporters of government run health care for all US citizens?
Thats the way the left see it.
aber61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:14 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.37424 seconds with 46 queries