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Old April 17th, 2010, 05:12 PM   #521
Rebel2345
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when did anyone say it is?

you dont have any more right to be in a restaurant then the next person....which is none

the person who does have the right is the business owner, and they can refuse service to any customer for any reason, and dont even need to explain that reason, or really even have one.

This is yet another example of the government removing rights, but it is the rights of the business owner they are trampling on. The "rights" of the customers do not come into play here, because they essentially leave those rights at the door. What the property owner says, goes. If you dont like it, you always have the right to leave.



honestly, if I had the money and time I would open a restaurant or bar, just so I could ask each person if they agreed with this law as they entered. Those that do agree with it, I would simply refuse to serve them, and ask them to leave the premises.
Yeah, its just like how the owner's right to use rancid meat, stale bread, or rotting vegetables to make the food is being taken away by the health department too!

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Old April 17th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #522
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This thread is an example of why this country is so fucked up. We've got 15%+ unemployment, we are at war, the government just took over the auto industry and health care, 90% of our goods are manufactured in China and other shitholes around the world, we have a mooslim in the white house and our congress is controlled by special interests. So, what do we do?????? We pass another dumb-ass, un-enforceable, feel-good law that infringes upon personal liberties while increasing government presence in our day-to-day lives.

Fuck everything. And fukc big government.
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Old April 17th, 2010, 07:11 PM   #523
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This thread is an example of why this country is so fucked up. We've got 15%+ unemployment, we are at war, the government just took over the auto industry and health care, 90% of our goods are manufactured in China and other shitholes around the world, we have a mooslim in the white house and our congress is controlled by special interests. So, what do we do?????? We pass another dumb-ass, un-enforceable, feel-good law that infringes upon personal liberties while increasing government presence in our day-to-day lives.

Fuck everything. And fukc big government.
I thought you could just ignore a federal law if you didnt like it?
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Old April 17th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #524
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did Hell just freeze over?


I really think it must have























I agree with something Hombre posted
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Old April 18th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #525
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I can't wait.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 12:16 AM   #526
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I can't wait.
I went to my favorite pub for dinner tonight, it was GREAT walking out and not needing a shower to get that stale cigarette smell off of me.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #527
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when did anyone say it is?

you dont have any more right to be in a restaurant then the next person....which is none


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yota Bill
This is just another step on that ladder of stripping our rights away.


Dont get me wrong, I am not against smoking in bars or restaurants, and think this new law is BS, but smoking tobacco isnt one of our rights. And if someone considers consuming a product is...then where do you draw the line? Marijuana? Absinth? Radium?
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Old April 18th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #528
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I went to my favorite pub for dinner tonight, it was GREAT walking out and not needing a shower to get that stale cigarette smell off of me.
That is too bad. It should have been the pub owners choice for you to smell like smoke. It should also be his choice to put rat shit in your food, have proper fire suppression equipment, and pay taxes.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 12:33 AM   #529
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Dont get me wrong, I am not against smoking in bars or restaurants, and think this new law is BS, but smoking tobacco isnt one of our rights. And if someone considers consuming a product is...then where do you draw the line? Marijuana? Absinth? Radium?
Health care.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 01:04 AM   #530
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It would be tough to ban smoking in MI I bet since so many people smoke. It'd be like banning smoking in Japan.
They pretty much banned smoking altogether here in Cali, but no surprise there. We've got more than enough feel good laws here.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 03:20 AM   #531
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Just got back to the hotel from a pub in Chicago. All I smell like is bourbon.... so wonderful.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 07:43 AM   #532
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Originally Posted by Fuel Fire Desire View Post
Dont get me wrong, I am not against smoking in bars or restaurants, and think this new law is BS, but smoking tobacco isnt one of our rights. And if someone considers consuming a product is...then where do you draw the line? Marijuana? Absinth? Radium?
Fuel Fire Desire...I'll try this one more time, for your sake, since the last 50 times or so that I have said this apparently didnt get through


I am not, nor have I ever said smoking is a right. I have also never said any person has the right to smoke in any place other then thier own property, nor have I said that any person has the right to go into a businsess without being around smoke.

The rights of the customers do not apply, regardless of which side of this law they are on. You do not have any right to go into a business, period. The business/property owner is granting you a priveledge by allowing you onto his private property. "Open to the public" is not the same as "Public". Any business can refuse service to you, for any reason, and they really dont even need to give you a reason. If the owner of a bar decides he doesnt like you, for whatever reason, he can tell you to leave.

Smoking tobacco is not the issue I have with this law. Removing the right of the property owner to decide what happens in his establishment is.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:31 AM   #533
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While I didn't agree with you entirely at first YotaBill. I'd have to say after listening to you and everyone else. I started to pay more attention to what's going on and this law is bullshit. The american government is like a giant corperation and the public is the labor force that doesn't want to lose their jobs. We just do what we're told. When people say that this country is like Russia they're not joking. I think it can be summed up in one word Oligarchy. We're just fooled into thinking we live in a democracy but that is just my opinion.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 08:40 AM   #534
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It would be tough to ban smoking in MI I bet since so many people smoke. It'd be like banning smoking in Japan.
They pretty much banned smoking altogether here in Cali, but no surprise there. We've got more than enough feel good laws here.
If NC can ban smoking, anybody can. All we have around here are giant fields of tobacco.
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Old April 18th, 2010, 09:05 AM   #535
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While I didn't agree with you entirely at first YotaBill. I'd have to say after listening to you and everyone else. I started to pay more attention to what's going on and this law is bullshit. The american government is like a giant corperation and the public is the labor force that doesn't want to lose their jobs. We just do what we're told. When people say that this country is like Russia they're not joking. I think it can be summed up in one word Oligarchy. We're just fooled into thinking we live in a democracy but that is just my opinion.
actually, this country was never intended to be a democracy...we are a republic...slight, but definate, differences...alot of people misunderstand this

republic:
Republic Republic

democracy:
Democracy Democracy


http://www.flixxy.com/political-systems.htm
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Old April 18th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #536
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We are all Slaves remember also the Earth is just one big Prison

MDOC

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When you buy a house you think you own it right? Wrong!! you own Nothing in Life
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Old April 19th, 2010, 12:53 AM   #537
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My wife and I smoke and neither of us care about the new law. What we don't like is all the new taxes and crap they put on cigs saying they are bad so we will keep raising prices to get people to quit. If government is so worried about our health why do they allow all of these fast food places to keep dishing out the heart attack in a bag meals. I heard that Michigan now has the most overweight people in the U.S. I would bet a lifetime of eating fast food would kill you a hell of a lot faster then a lifetime of smoking.
but you have the choice to eat fast food but the only choice you have about second hand smoke is to not go in your favorite place to eat or socialize because it is filled with smokers.......



more power to the ban.....
what people against it dont understand they still can smoke they just have to go outside to do so...but the problem is that that everyone is pised that they have to go outside insted of being able to do so inside.....
hell alot of places are already non smoking anyway in michigan

and to further proove my point why the hell should smokers have more rights than non smokers....why should i be forced to smell that stinky shiat....it is your choice to smoke then you have the choice to smoke outside insted of forcing everyone else smell your second hand smoke
noone is taking your ciggs away from you they are just saying you have to do so outside......


say you are starting a new job and they tell you that company pollicy says you have to smoke outside.....do you take the job and smoke outside or do you say no thanks ill find another place that allows smoking????
or your companysays they are going to non smoking..are you gonna quit your job?? i doubt it...people are just pissed that now they have to either quit smoking or do so outside......

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Old April 19th, 2010, 02:06 AM   #538
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Smoking tobacco is not the issue I have with this law. Removing the right of the property owner to decide what happens in his establishment is.
This

As much as being in a smoke filled bar annoys me, I believe it's the owner's right to decide which activities take place in his/her establishment. I am not FORCED to be there. I hate big government.

Oh and I would like to see a link to cases that say you don't have to have plates on your car. Cuz, well I'm sick of payin $110 to drive my car for three months.
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Old April 19th, 2010, 05:37 AM   #539
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but you have the choice to eat fast food but the only choice you have about second hand smoke is to not go in your favorite place to eat or socialize because it is filled with smokers.......



more power to the ban.....
what people against it dont understand they still can smoke they just have to go outside to do so...but the problem is that that everyone is pised that they have to go outside insted of being able to do so inside.....
hell alot of places are already non smoking anyway in michigan

and to further proove my point why the hell should smokers have more rights than non smokers....why should i be forced to smell that stinky shiat....it is your choice to smoke then you have the choice to smoke outside insted of forcing everyone else smell your second hand smoke
noone is taking your ciggs away from you they are just saying you have to do so outside......


say you are starting a new job and they tell you that company pollicy says you have to smoke outside.....do you take the job and smoke outside or do you say no thanks ill find another place that allows smoking????
or your companysays they are going to non smoking..are you gonna quit your job?? i doubt it...people are just pissed that now they have to either quit smoking or do so outside......
you dont pay much attention, do you? read up a few posts...niether smokers or non-smokers have any right to be in a restaurant or bar


why is everyone focused only on these two types of businesses? this applies to every business, even if they dont deal with any customers physically in thier building





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Oh and I would like to see a link to cases that say you don't have to have plates on your car. Cuz, well I'm sick of payin $110 to drive my car for three months.


http://www.apfn.org/apfn/travel.htm
http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com..._licensing.htm
http://www.welcome.freeenterprisesoc..._to_travel.htm
http://www.land.netonecom.net/tlp/re...t2travel.shtml
http://www.illidan1337.net/travel-ri...rivers-license
http://thecountyguard.org/right-2-drive-1.html
**Internal Linking (Threads)
http://thecountyguard.org/right-2-drive-handout.html



but that is a different issue, so a different thread should be started if you really want to discuss that
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Old April 19th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #540
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Did anyone bring up golf courses and non smoking?
They have cart girls running beer within their property covered by their liquor license, so therefore no smoking on the golf course.
This will be interesting to see what group is the first to challenge this law.
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