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Old February 11th, 2010, 08:23 AM   #1
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Default Global Warming

Causes massive snow storms?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599196229400

Snowstorm: East Coast Blizzard Tied to Climate Change

By BRYAN WALSH Bryan Walsh – Wed Feb 10, 3:50 pm ET

As the blizzard-bound residents of the mid-Atlantic region get ready to dig themselves out of the third major storm of the season, they may stop to wonder two things: Why haven't we bothered to invest in a snow blower, and what happened to climate change? After all, it stands to reason that if the world is getting warmer - and the past decade was the hottest on record - major snowstorms should become a thing of the past, like PalmPilots and majority rule in the Senate. Certainly that's what the Virginia state Republican Party thinks: the GOP aired an ad last weekend that attacked two Democratic members of Congress for supporting the 2009 carbon-cap-and-trade bill, using the recent storms to cast doubt on global warming. (See pictures of the massive blizzard in Washington, D.C.)


Brace yourselves now - this may be a case of politicians twisting the facts. There is some evidence that climate change could in fact make such massive snowstorms more common, even as the world continues to warm. As the meteorologist Jeff Masters points out in his excellent blog at Weather Underground, the two major storms that hit Philadelphia, Baltimore and Washington, D.C., this winter - in December and during the first weekend of February - are already among the 10 heaviest snowfalls those cities have ever recorded. The chance of that happening in the same winter is incredibly unlikely.


But there have been hints that it was coming. The 2009 U.S. Climate Impacts Report found that large-scale cold-weather storm systems have gradually tracked to the north in the U.S. over the past 50 years. While the frequency of storms in the middle latitudes has decreased as the climate has warmed, the intensity of those storms has increased. That's in part because of global warming - hotter air can hold more moisture, so when a storm gathers it can unleash massive amounts of snow. Colder air, by contrast, is drier; if we were in a truly vicious cold snap, like the one that occurred over much of the East Coast during parts of January, we would be unlikely to see heavy snowfall.


Climate models also suggest that while global warming may not make hurricanes more common, it could well intensify the storms that do occur and make them more destructive.


But as far as winter storms go, shouldn't climate change make it too warm for snow to fall? Eventually that is likely to happen - but probably not for a while. In the meantime, warmer air could be supercharged with moisture and, as long as the temperature remains below 32°F, it will result in blizzards rather than drenching winter rainstorms. And while the mid-Atlantic has borne the brunt of the snowfall so far this winter, areas near lakes may get hit even worse. As global temperatures have risen, the winter ice cover over the Great Lakes has shrunk, which has led to even more moisture in the atmosphere and more snow in the already hard-hit Great Lakes region, according to a 2003 study in the Journal of Climate.


Ultimately, however, it's a mistake to use any one storm - or even a season's worth of storms - to disprove climate change (or to prove it; some environmentalists have wrongly tied the lack of snow in Vancouver, the site of the Winter Olympic Games, which begin this week, to global warming). Weather is what will happen next weekend; climate is what will happen over the next decades and centuries. And while our ability to predict the former has become reasonably reliable, scientists are still a long way from being able to make accurate projections about the future of the global climate. Of course, that doesn't help you much when you're trying to locate your car under a foot of powder.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #2
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I heard the other day that global warming is going to cause the next ice age...
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:17 PM   #3
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I heard the other day that global warming is going to cause the next ice age...
That's funny, I heard the same thing!

I love ice fishing so I am all about global warming, bring it on.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:27 PM   #4
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The way that it was explaind to me made some sense.

1. the world warms up a couple degrees each year.
2. the polar ice caps melt
3.the melted water runs into the ocean
4. that cools the ocean down a couple more degrees
5. that allows the storms to become more intense and eventually the next ice age happens....


I would bet that we are talking several hundred more years, but it made sence at the time to me. There were a bunch of diagrams that showed the flows of the different areas of the oceans and how the cooler water would affect everything.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:48 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by SANDVIPR View Post
The way that it was explaind to me made some sense.

1. the world warms up a couple degrees each year.
2. the polar ice caps melt
3.the melted water runs into the ocean
4. that cools the ocean down a couple more degrees
5. that allows the storms to become more intense and eventually the next ice age happens....


I would bet that we are talking several hundred more years, but it made sence at the time to me. There were a bunch of diagrams that showed the flows of the different areas of the oceans and how the cooler water would affect everything.
Sounds like bullshit circle talking to me.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 12:52 PM   #6
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Sounds like Gore- doesn't it????
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Old February 11th, 2010, 01:00 PM   #7
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The earth naturally goes through periods of warmer and colder tempatures. This one is no different. Think about it, the earth had ice ages long before we showed up. Global warming = bullshit.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 01:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
I heard the other day that global warming is going to cause the next ice age...
Obviously

I love it when it is "The worst snow storm in 100 years!" So then it happened 100 years ago? What caused it that time? OH YEAH, now its not the severity of the storm, it is that its going to happen MORE OFTEN now because of global warming! Then the trot out some old-timer to give a speech about how he's "Never seen a storm by the likes of this before". As if...
If it gets colder its global warming, if it gets hotter its global warming, if theres more hurricanes its global warming, if theres less hurricanes its global warming, If theres not enough snow on a mountain in vancouver where they want to have the olympics its because of global warming, if theres 4 feet of snow in washington dc its because of global warming.
Just trying to cover all the bases here.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 02:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by smasheromalley View Post
Obviously

I love it when it is "The worst snow storm in 100 years!" So then it happened 100 years ago? What caused it that time? OH YEAH, now its not the severity of the storm, it is that its going to happen MORE OFTEN now because of global warming! Then the trot out some old-timer to give a speech about how he's "Never seen a storm by the likes of this before". As if...
If it gets colder its global warming, if it gets hotter its global warming, if theres more hurricanes its global warming, if theres less hurricanes its global warming, If theres not enough snow on a mountain in vancouver where they want to have the olympics its because of global warming, if theres 4 feet of snow in washington dc its because of global warming.
Just trying to cover all the bases here.
cover all your bases and change the words "global warming" to "climate change" then you are right no matter what happens and can lobby to control carbon credits to dictate the actions of people who do not share your twisted views of reality.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #10
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I heard the other day that global warming is going to cause the next ice age...

Yes so true but now they call it climate change as to cover their ass.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #11
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I heard the other day that global warming is going to cause the next ice age...
I'm pretty sure if you check the Ice Age cycles, we're overdue.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #12
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The same type of people that are claiming global warming are the same group that claim evolution in true. If so where are all the transitional fossils? Why was Greenland called Greenland? Because at one time it was green. Only more ways to scare the public into believing lies to keep the vulnerable under government control.
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Old February 11th, 2010, 05:46 PM   #13
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The same type of people that are claiming global warming are the same group that claim evolution in true. If so where are all the transitional fossils? Why was Greenland called Greenland? Because at one time it was green. Only more ways to scare the public into believing lies to keep the vulnerable under government control.
Is this you?

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Old February 11th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #14
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Nope thats not me. I would have the nerve to do that in that type of setting. That person does not help the Christian cause. It only makes Christians look like ..... crazy people and that is not what Christains are. That is not me nor my way of telling people about Jesus. There is a right way to go about everything we do.
Question is would you go about doing something like that in front a bunch of college kids only talking about how you may believe in evolution or how there is no God, maybe you believe in Budda. What ever you believe. Why would you think that because I talk about God that I am a radical right wing Jesus freak. You have a warped way of lumping all Christians in the same pile of your twisted logic. You watch way too much left wing news media because that is how they look at Christains also. You need to get out from under your rock and see the world as most people see it, not through a pair of liberal glasses.

Last edited by aber61; February 11th, 2010 at 06:09 PM.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by aber61 View Post
The same type of people that are claiming global warming are the same group that claim evolution in true. If so where are all the transitional fossils? Why was Greenland called Greenland? Because at one time it was green. Only more ways to scare the public into believing lies to keep the vulnerable under government control.
poor example with no basis in fact...sorry


Quote:
There are two written sources on the origin of the name, in The Book of Icelanders (Íslendingabók), a historical work dealing with early Icelandic history from the 12th century, and in the medieval Icelandic saga, The Saga of Eric the Red (Eiríks saga rauða), which is about the Norse settlement in Greenland and the story of Erik the Red in particular. Both sources write: "He named the land Greenland, saying that people would be eager to go there if it had a good name."
History_of_Greenland History_of_Greenland


The island was named Greenland just to get more people to settle there.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:52 AM   #16
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This is my take on global warming/climate change.
First, I think this if one issue in particular where the moderates need to take back the discussion from the extremists. On one side we have the Al Gore types, running around like chicken little, screaming that the sky is falling. On the other side we have the global warming deniers, unwilling to accept the possibility that taking millions of tons of carbon, oxidizing it into CO2, and releasing it into the atmosphere might cause some changes to the environment. Add to these the “young earth Christians” (see footnote if this is you), who think the world was created in the current state. And then top it off with the media, who are in business make money, and know they can get more readers/viewers with headlines like “GLOBAL WARMINGS COMING. OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!” than they can with “WE CAN KEEPING DOING WHAT WE’RE DOING FOREVER AND NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN”. With all these people making noise it’s no wonder that no real discussion can take place. We need all of them to shut up for a while so that those of us who can think reasonable and rationally, and who can take an unbiased look at the facts and data, can work out the best plan going forward from here.

So lets look at the facts:
The earth’s climate has been changing since it came into existence, and will continue to do so until it ceases to exist.
During the past century we have removed many millions (billions? trillions? more?) tons of hydrocarbons from the ground, oxidized them, and released the resulting CO2 into the atmosphere.
There are, and always have been, and always will be, natural sources of CO2.
During the past century the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased.
During the past century there has been a reduction in the size of glaciers in many parts of the world.
During the past century there has been an increase in average temperature in many places in the world.

I’m sure I’m leaving out many facts, feel free to add to this list.
My opinions and conclusions based on these facts:
While it has not been proven that there is a direct cause and effect link between the release of CO2 from human activity and global climate changes, I think that there is enough evidence to suggest that this is a possibility. Because of this I think it would be wise to do what we can to limit the release of CO2.

While no one knows for sure what the long term effect of these changes are, given the scale of the global climate I think it is reasonable to assume that these changes may be slow in coming, long lasting, and difficult to reverse. Because of this I think it would be wise to take actions now rather than waiting until the effects on global climate are proven.

Having been to a 3rd world country I realize that it is our affluence that affords us the ability to care about the environment. You have to do what you have to do to survive today before you can worry about tomorrow. If we destroy our economy to try to save the environment in the long run we will destroy both.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:53 AM   #17
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foot note to be added later.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 12:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
This is my take on global warming/climate change.
First, I think this if one issue in particular where the moderates need to take back the discussion from the extremists. On one side we have the Al Gore types, running around like chicken little, screaming that the sky is falling. On the other side we have the global warming deniers, unwilling to accept the possibility that taking millions of tons of carbon, oxidizing it into CO2, and releasing it into the atmosphere might cause some changes to the environment. Add to these the “young earth Christians” (see footnote if this is you), who think the world was created in the current state. And then top it off with the media, who are in business make money, and know they can get more readers/viewers with headlines like “GLOBAL WARMINGS COMING. OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!” than they can with “WE CAN KEEPING DOING WHAT WE’RE DOING FOREVER AND NOTHING BAD WILL HAPPEN”. With all these people making noise it’s no wonder that no real discussion can take place. We need all of them to shut up for a while so that those of us who can think reasonable and rationally, and who can take an unbiased look at the facts and data, can work out the best plan going forward from here.

So lets look at the facts:
The earth’s climate has been changing since it came into existence, and will continue to do so until it ceases to exist.
During the past century we have removed many millions (billions? trillions? more?) tons of hydrocarbons from the ground, oxidized them, and released the resulting CO2 into the atmosphere.
There are, and always have been, and always will be, natural sources of CO2.
During the past century the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased.
During the past century there has been a reduction in the size of glaciers in many parts of the world.
During the past century there has been an increase in average temperature in many places in the world.

I’m sure I’m leaving out many facts, feel free to add to this list.
My opinions and conclusions based on these facts:
While it has not been proven that there is a direct cause and effect link between the release of CO2 from human activity and global climate changes, I think that there is enough evidence to suggest that this is a possibility. Because of this I think it would be wise to do what we can to limit the release of CO2.

While no one knows for sure what the long term effect of these changes are, given the scale of the global climate I think it is reasonable to assume that these changes may be slow in coming, long lasting, and difficult to reverse. Because of this I think it would be wise to take actions now rather than waiting until the effects on global climate are proven.

Having been to a 3rd world country I realize that it is our affluence that affords us the ability to care about the environment. You have to do what you have to do to survive today before you can worry about tomorrow. If we destroy our economy to try to save the environment in the long run we will destroy both.

I agree. Although I might have to wait for the foot note.

From a Christian Viewpoint there is no reason to worry (To be Anxious, Loose hair, sell all my cars and stop breathing) about global warming. I know where my future is headed. BUT, and let me say BUT again; It is our responsibility as Sons of Adam (and Daughter of Eve) to take care of this planet. That's the original purpose of our Ancestors. To take care of the planet and all that is in it. Christians should be the first to live as "green" as possible. My wife And I live as green as we can. When it's warm enough, I ride my bike to work and she takes the bus to school.

I just can't stand the people that are saying the world is going to burn in 100 years because we're driving cars. One thing that alot of "global Warming" people ignore, IMO, is that we're part of a Solar system that has a Sun that goes through cycles. It has hot spots, it's not a constant temperature all the time. Personally, I think that the Sun may have more to do with Global Warming then we do. We should do our best to try but, to an extent, it would be like putting an Ice cube in a boiling pot. It'll slow things down, but won't freeze the water. In the mid evil times they had a warming trend that far exceeds our temperatures now. I think our Climate Is effected by our actions but we're also experiencing a Warming from the sun more then anything.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 01:04 PM   #19
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I'm cold. I bought a case of CFC propelled hairspray off ebay and I'm spraying it outside.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 01:11 PM   #20
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I'm cold. I bought a case of CFC propelled hairspray off ebay and I'm spraying it outside.
im burning all my old tires.
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