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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:10 PM   #1
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Default Healthcare Reform - What Problem Are We Trying To Solve?

Okay, lots of rhetoric and blah blah about healthcare.

In terms of the healthcare debate, let me (seriously) ask one question:

What problem - exactly - are we trying to solve?

Before we can fix anything, there has to be high agreement on just what we're fixing. All of the answers I keep hearing are for different problems.

So, let's hear it.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 05:18 PM   #2
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Lazy "insert racial slur here" and illegal aliens don't have health insurance. Boo fucking hoo
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:23 PM   #3
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The problem the president is trying to solve is how to give 15% of the population health insurance and punish the other 85% that have it.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:30 PM   #4
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The problem the president is trying to solve is how to give 15% of the population health insurance and punish the other 85% that have it.
Good point toes, never looked at it that way. It's like the have's and the have not's
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Old August 27th, 2009, 06:41 PM   #5
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Don't forget that the think we spend too much on end of life care, and they can have more to "spread around" if you just give grandma some pain pills instead of real treatment. We're too stupid to make our own decisions.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 11:19 PM   #6
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this is an interesting question that very few seem eager to try to answer. I keep hearing about those that dont have healthcare (then go get a job and pay for it) or about how expensive health insurance is (I have a job, and mine comes out of my paycheck, and its not that bad of a price, in comparison to other types of insurances) or about how crooked the health insurance companies are (I'd like to see some clear examples of this)

My answer would have to be, I just dont know. So why are we trying to fix something that isnt broken?
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Old August 27th, 2009, 11:29 PM   #7
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I would like to see some more competition in health insurance market. If what I have heard is right there really isn't any. It was something like 85-90% of health insurance is ran by blue cross. And most states have 70-90% controlled by one insurer. I would like to see either companies broke up or more inter-state competition among insurance companies.
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Old August 27th, 2009, 11:33 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
What problem - exactly - are we trying to solve?
It is not micro-managed and taxed by a pedantic government
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Old August 28th, 2009, 12:28 AM   #9
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Definitely a question that needs to be asked before any changes are proposed. I think that may be one of the big problems that prevents anything from getting done. The keep trying to write these big all encompassing bills that are supposed to cure everything that ails our health care system and they end up being big monsters that no one can fully understand. Maybe we should try to tackle one problem at a time.

My list, in order of priority:

1. Cost. However you look at it we pay more for healthcare than pretty much any other industrial nation. Why? Also, the total amount we pay as a percentage of GDP continues to rise every year. That can not continue forever, eventually we're going to have to address it. Maybe if we can get costs under control it would help with some of the other issues.

2. Reforms to stop insurance companies mistreatments of costumers. This is a matter of control you selfs or be controlled. A customer and doctor should not have to fight with the insurance company every step of the way. A person should not have to be an expert in medical coverage to be able to choose a good medical plan. Maybe some system of standardization of levels of coverage would help.

3. Availability beyond employee provided plans. I know individual plans exist, but they tend to be expensive and have lots of restrictions. I think something could be done to encourage insurance companies to offer reasonably priced insurance to people who for whatever reason are not covered under employee provided plans.

4. Health care for the poor. I know, "bleeding hearth liberal " But the problem with our current system is hospitals and emergency responders have to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay. This means that the hospital ER is often the only place a poor person can get medical treatment, and that is an expensive way to treat people. We all end up paying the bill for that anyways so maybe a better way could be found to get these people medical treatment before their condition becomes bad enough to warrant an ER visit. It might save us all money in he long run.

5. everything else. There are many other issues addressed in the health care bills being considered. Things like the shortage of certain medical proffesionals, the shortage of medical facilities in rural areas, and other issues that I probably never heard about.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:40 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Definitely a question that needs to be asked before any changes are proposed. I think that may be one of the big problems that prevents anything from getting done. The keep trying to write these big all encompassing bills that are supposed to cure everything that ails our health care system and they end up being big monsters that no one can fully understand. Maybe we should try to tackle one problem at a time.

My list, in order of priority:

1. Cost. However you look at it we pay more for healthcare than pretty much any other industrial nation. Why? The best chance you have to survive cancer is to get treatment in the U.S. thats one reason why you pay more here, Ill pay for better treatment, how? about you Also, the total amount we pay as a percentage of GDP continues to rise every year. That can not continue forever, eventually we're going to have to address it. Maybe if we can get costs under control it would help with some of the other issues.

2. Reforms to stop insurance companies mistreatments of costumers. This is a matter of control you selfs or be controlled. A customer and doctor should not have to fight with the insurance company every step of the way. A person should not have to be an expert in medical coverage to be able to choose a good medical plan. Maybe some system of standardization of levels of coverage would help. This is really simple, quit buying insurance, have the medical field start listing prices for insured payments and C.O.D. I think you would see a ton of people drop their insurance and start paying for their healthcare that would all of a sudden become affordable.

3. Availability beyond employee provided plans. I know individual plans exist, but they tend to be expensive and have lots of restrictions. I think something could be done to encourage insurance companies to offer reasonably priced insurance to people who for whatever reason are not covered under employee provided plans. See#3

4. Health care for the poor. I know, "bleeding hearth liberal " But the problem with our current system is hospitals and emergency responders have to treat everyone regardless of their ability to pay. This means that the hospital ER is often the only place a poor person can get medical treatment, and that is an expensive way to treat people. We all end up paying the bill for that anyways so maybe a better way could be found to get these people medical treatment before their condition becomes bad enough to warrant an ER visit. It might save us all money in he long run. #3

5. everything else. There are many other issues addressed in the health care bills being considered. Things like the shortage of certain medical proffesionals, the shortage of medical facilities in rural areas, and other issues that I probably never heard about.
That will all be taken care of by free enterprise.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:44 AM   #11
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This whole health care bullshit government take over is so stupid. The Obama crew is yaking about 40 million people don't have insurance, You really think the insurance industry isn't looking at how to get a chunk of that 40 million people as new customers.
Do you really believe the insurance industry is going tolet its customer base keep shrinking...
Anybody have any business 101?????
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:56 AM   #12
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So we have come to an agreement that our current health care system is in no need of a complete overhaul.
What we need to do is tweek what we have at this point, instead of spending billions of billions of dollars to make something worse on the people of this country.
Rebublicans have proposed health care bills (3 in total) that have been denied by Dem.
It is about the people and not left or right, if we all got on the same page we could force the governmet to do what we the people want, not what they want to do for us
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Old August 28th, 2009, 05:12 PM   #13
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Rebublicans have proposed health care bills (3 in total) that have been denied by Dem.
Yep. Here they are.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...1324is.txt.pdf


http://www.house.gov/ryan/PCA/PCAsummary15p.pdf
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...2520ih.txt.pdf

http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/Upload...ary--FINAL.pdf
http://rsc.tomprice.house.gov/Upload...ext--FINAL.pdf

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Old August 28th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #14
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Y'all see my point.

The first step in effectively and successfully solving a problem is to gain high agreement on just what that problem is. Obama and his merry band of morons have not done so. They're throwing "solutions" out there in hopes one will stick. And, fortunately, many folks are starting to see through the haze of the media's bias to see that.

This is the same error Dubya made in Iraq. While Iraq needed to be handled, you first clearly define what problem you're trying to solve so that you know when you're done. He defined a vague concept of "done", so we'll never seem to be there.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:38 PM   #15
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So here they are, Why have we not heard of these from the media? Why have the dems not said that there are other bills that we have to look at from the , but no we hear nothing. What are the trying to hide, or are they afraid of compitition
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Old August 28th, 2009, 09:16 PM   #16
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We have not heard of these because the liberal media is to busy worshipping at the alter of Obama and his minions. Why would the media want the general public to see that the actually care about you and I? All they (the media) care about is trying to make the annointed one look as good as possible at every turn.

The fact is the liberals don't care about answering questions. Their answer to everything is "Government". They only care about power, the power to control every person in the United States. "Healthcare" as they call it, is just one of the many things they are trying to gain control of. Healthcare is one thing that the U.S. has got right over the years. Where do people with money from countries with socialized medicine come for the best healthcare in the world? Here!

Brewmenn's points sum it up.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:16 AM   #17
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I heard a interesting law from Switzerland I think it was, insurance company has 10 business days to pay a claim if they fail to due so you get the next month of insurance is on them. Just sounded like an possible way to keep them from stalling payment to see if you'll agree with them over coverage. Still have thought threw all the positive or neg. on this but thought I'd toss it out there.
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Old August 31st, 2009, 07:47 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
Okay, lots of rhetoric and blah blah about healthcare.

In terms of the healthcare debate, let me (seriously) ask one question:

What problem - exactly - are we trying to solve?

Before we can fix anything, there has to be high agreement on just what we're fixing. All of the answers I keep hearing are for different problems.

So, let's hear it.
Very good point. I happen to catch this on PBS. Not the whole story, but it will certainly give some food for thought. http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08282009/watch.html
No doubt our system is screwed up and only going to get worse.
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