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Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:35 AM   #101
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Ok i didnt have time to read the entire thead yet but i thought i would say something.

First of all stuff like this is sad. At this rate there will either be no trails left or everyone will be so scared to use them that our sport is going to die. Im younger than most of the poeple here so it makes me wonder what im going todo in the future. Places are closing left and right that i havent even got a change to wheel at yet!
When i get home tonight and have some time i going to look into joining the GLFWDA.

second, Id watch what you say on the interenet. our local club went though something like this and we had to go to court. They had printoffs of everythig we said along will the pic and vids we posted. I know there were a few things i said that i wish i wouldnt had. Like "i hope i get a subpoena" because guess what, i had one served to me within a day or so of that lol. Im just saying, dont play it off as a joke here because it will come back to haunt you....(not saying anyone is not taking it seriously, i just saying watch what you say)
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:49 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ArcticCat843 View Post
Ok i didnt have time to read the entire thead yet but i thought i would say something.

First of all stuff like this is sad. At this rate there will either be no trails left or everyone will be so scared to use them that our sport is going to die. Im younger than most of the poeple here so it makes me wonder what im going todo in the future. Places are closing left and right that i havent even got a change to wheel at yet!
When i get home tonight and have some time i going to look into joining the GLFWDA.

second, Id watch what you say on the interenet. our local club went though something like this and we had to go to court. They had printoffs of everythig we said along will the pic and vids we posted. I know there were a few things i said that i wish i wouldnt had. Like "i hope i get a subpoena" because guess what, i had one served to me within a day or so of that lol. Im just saying, dont play it off as a joke here because it will come back to haunt you....(not saying anyone is not taking it seriously, i just saying watch what you say)

I hope one day I get a subpoena for legal wheeling
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 12:17 PM   #103
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I hope So Also so that way it makes sure we hve a day in court to plead our case
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 01:33 PM   #104
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here is the gps of where i was when i recieved my ticket
43 20.150 -86 07.542
You can see the trail from space on google maps sat. view.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 02:24 PM   #105
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here is the gps of where i was when i recieved my ticket
43 20.150 -86 07.542
You can see the trail from space on google maps sat. view.

I was standing in the spot my jeep was stopped when I took this picture.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:03 PM   #106
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As discussed before, I know the DNR look around here. I know an officer and he knew my tag here before I even told him. He just sold his Jeep in hopes of getting an already modified one in the near future.
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:16 PM   #107
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I hope one day I get a subpoena for legal wheeling
It was 100% legal at the time so its not that i was worried about it....But you know what im saying.....it just makes you look like a idiot....like when we where wheelin someone wrote something along the lines of "i heart black penis" on my muddy window, guess what picture showed up in court lol Of course it was a little different set up than this but im just saying anything you say on here could end up in court...
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Old July 2nd, 2009, 03:20 PM   #108
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It is an awful shame that you guys got the peasant treatment from the kings men. The sooner you decide to travel to an off road park to wheel the better off you will be. These trails have been my home all my life around Twin Lake, but I travel to off road parks. Anybody ever hike Ludington state park and see the erosion along the trails from foot traffic? Ohh that is ok cuz you paid admission to the king to get in........Funny how that works huh. Good luck guys, I hope you get out of this mess, but in the end they will win.....using our tax dollars in the process. Sweet Freedom eh........
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 01:08 PM   #109
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things said on this forum can be used in court, as this becomes public domain items.

If this thread is open to the general public to read without having to become a member, then it could be used against anyone here if something is said in a derogatory nature.

Todd
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 07:33 PM   #110
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Well here is an easy fix for anything being used against one of you guys. O-yeah there isnt anything to use against any of them because they had not done a thing in the first place! It is like tring to put their finger prints on a gun that they never held. We whom were in the trail know that nothing illeagal was done and was going to be done. We went out to enjoy a awsome evening of trail riding and meeting new people and seeing some old faces. And if they are reading this BRING ME TO COURT!!!!
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Old July 3rd, 2009, 11:04 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFWDA-landuse View Post
things said on this forum can be used in court, as this becomes public domain items.

If this thread is open to the general public to read without having to become a member, then it could be used against anyone here if something is said in a derogatory nature.

Todd
Derogatory nature. Wouldn't that be free speech? What could somebody say to get them in trouble besides admitting to doing something illegal which nobody has because it seems they were legal?
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Old July 4th, 2009, 01:26 AM   #112
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I'd like to know why CC allows the dnr on here? Where is our privacy? We are not on here to deal drugs commit heinouis crimes. or plot to kill people. Their time WOULD be better spent on busting the illegal partyers like was mentioned earlier.
We've spent 11 years and serious man hours cleaning up this area and just out for a drive get ticketed. Too bad we can't bring all the garbage, trash and shigles back and say "Sorry didn't realize we did this work for nothing"
Good luck Gents!!
And Mr. dnr and Forest guy I am willing to talk to you face to face but on neutral ground thank you, as man to man ,not Officer to suspected law breaker. Just because we up grade our rigs doesn't mean we are out here to destroy every thing in our sight.
Thank You for your time. P.S. being a OTR driver I may not be able to answer right away.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #113
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Either way, you can say what ever you please.. Read the 1st Ammendment. Lots of people forget about that one huh? We can and will say whatever we please. I am not trying to come off as a jerk here but those tickets were pure assnine.
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Old July 4th, 2009, 01:24 PM   #114
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It is much better if forums are kept private to keep the prying eyes of the local LEO, DNR or Anti-Access folks out of our business.

Then if someone happens to post something illegal about a trail ride, or post pictures showing them off trail, we as a group can re-educate them.
The re-education needs to be done less flames (as in the way Pirate4x4 does it).

People will make mistakes, but as long as they do not repeat it, then in my eyes, they are good.

Now, with that being said, I firmly believe nothing was done wrong here on this trail ride. I think the FS was possibly trying to make a point, and they did not know their forest as they should to know what trails are open or closed.
They have failed to be able to make the trail system readily identifyable as open or closed for the average person using the trail system.

We at UFWDA have a call into Carla Boucher for more legal advice on this issue here. We will need someone to be the primary contact person, so we do not send her emails and phone calls from multiple individuals.

She has been busy with a family emergency, and will let you know when she has returned from that.

Pat Bower has sent her an email I think.

UFWDA will provide the help that we can in assisting with this.

Todd
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Old July 5th, 2009, 02:06 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by greatpumpkin View Post
I'd like to know why CC allows the dnr on here? Where is our privacy? We are not on here to deal drugs commit heinouis crimes. or plot to kill people. Their time WOULD be better spent on busting the illegal partyers like was mentioned earlier.
We've spent 11 years and serious man hours cleaning up this area and just out for a drive get ticketed. Too bad we can't bring all the garbage, trash and shigles back and say "Sorry didn't realize we did this work for nothing"
Good luck Gents!!
And Mr. dnr and Forest guy I am willing to talk to you face to face but on neutral ground thank you, as man to man ,not Officer to suspected law breaker. Just because we up grade our rigs doesn't mean we are out here to destroy every thing in our sight.
Thank You for your time. P.S. being a OTR driver I may not be able to answer right away.
he lets them in because we are not hiding illegal wheeling. we are here to educate and having them amung us out in the open and talking with us and hopefully, setting us strait when some one is setting up a illagal trail ride by mistake...then lurking in the dark under cover with a fake name and saying he is a OTR Truck driver
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Old July 5th, 2009, 09:13 AM   #116
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This is not stopping me from going out on any of the trails. They want to scare everyone so they stop using them. Once people quit using them they will close them down. Hell Im going out today in the White Cloud area.

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Old July 5th, 2009, 11:28 AM   #117
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Is not the premise innocent til proven guilty? Wouldn't GPS coordinates absolve any of guilt?
I chickened out and took part of the Big O, Tin cup routes yesterday and not only
are they lame, but now they are whooped out to boot.
By far the most damage is by the logging vehicles, but money talks when you've got bureaucrats doing your bidding.
They can not possibly catch all the offenders drinking and trashing up the place, but it's easy pickins off the net.
This plays out like that ever successful "war on drugs". Round up the easy pickins, whether it's wheelers
as sitting ducks after web postings or letting crack dealers hang out til roundup/quota time. Have to show results you see. Justifies your existence and paycheck

Last edited by upchuck; July 5th, 2009 at 11:33 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 01:20 PM   #118
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I would hope that they FS and DNR guys on here are for all the right reasons.

If someone is planning a ride on a trail that is closed, then they should post it is closed, and properly identify themselves as such.

Their is nothing wrong with being open in our postings.
As for this case though, I do think we should move a lot of the actual case talk to email so they do not know how to defend their reasons for giving the tickets or our plan on how to fight them.
Even though most of the info needed has been posted here already.

Todd
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Old July 5th, 2009, 01:26 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFWDA-landuse View Post
I would hope that they FS and DNR guys on here are for all the right reasons.

If someone is planning a ride on a trail that is closed, then they should post it is closed, and properly identify themselves as such.

Their is nothing wrong with being open in our postings.
As for this case though, I do think we should move a lot of the actual case talk to email so they do not know how to defend their reasons for giving the tickets or our plan on how to fight them.
Even though most of the info needed has been posted here already.

Todd
Its obvious that they are not here to help and answer questions, they made some comments on here that pretty much said "nothing on this area is legal" even though there was a legal trail, and when people asked questions there was no reply or the same "you cant do anything with a full sized rig" reply.
I think they made it obvious that they are not here to help, they just want to keep people put of the woods and off the trails.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 01:33 PM   #120
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Prevent the DNR from reading this forum?

If you're doing something illegal, you should get a ticket. If you're not doing something illegal, you shouldn't worry about any DNR or other law enforcer reading what you're doing.

If they write you a ticket for legal wheeling, post it here, go to court, and get a judge ruling in your favor.



I can't think of one single time in the last five years I was wheeling somewhere and I thought "I hope DNR aren't around here"


People shouldn't fear the government, and if they think the laws are inappropriate, you should petition to change the law, not to bitch at the enforcer.
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