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Old June 28th, 2009, 10:32 AM   #1
curbdog17
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Default Cedar Creek Tickets - CASE DISMISSED!

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ON 6/27/2009 MYSELF AND 3 OTHERS IN OUR GROUP RECIEVED A TICKET FOR "USE OF JEEP 4X4 OFF OF DESIGNATED ROAD" THE MAP I HAVE FROM THE U.S. FOREST SERVICE SHOWS THE TRAIL WE WERE ON AS FR5912 THIS IS AT A SPOT THAT THE TRAIL SPLITS AND BOTH DIRECTIONS ARE ON THE MAP. THE FOREST AGENTS DID NOT HAVE A MAP OF THE AREA WE WERE IN AND WOULD NOT SHOW US THE TRAILS THAT ARE LEGAL. OFFICER TOM WALTER STATED "DRIVE ON WHAT LOOKS LEGAL". HERE ARE PICTURES OF THE TRAIL WE WERE ON WHEN ISSUED THE TICKETS.












I WOULD LIKE TO ASK FOR THE SUPPORT OF ALL GL4X4 MEMBERS IN FIGHTING THIS TICKET.
I WILL POST MORE INFO ON THIS ISSUE IN THE FUTURE.

Last edited by curbdog17; July 9th, 2009 at 10:03 AM.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 10:41 AM   #2
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See the new thread - put my .02 here too...I know exactly where this is...

This really sickens me. We ended up not going at the last minute due to knowing it would be incredibly dusty out there and did not want the 2 day headache from breathing that much dust again.
I read the article in the link from Trail_fanatic and his prediction is true. How they can ticket now - educate later, read these threads and lay in waiting for us to get out there, and have a conscience, knowing there are not maps and a lot of the trails are not properly marked. We are all trying to play by the rules, but when the rules are not published, what are we supposed to do? Some of the trails they block, their digging is far more damaging than us rolling around out there in 2nd gear at an idle.

Really sorry to hear about this guys.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 11:01 AM   #3
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"USE OF JEEP 4X4 OFF OF DESIGNATED ROAD"

This phrase really interests me, it's a new one. If you were all street licensed (SOS) vehicles and it is passible by a conventional 2wd vehicle, you are legal. If you were not street legal, you would have needed to be on a marked route. To me, you were not on a trail that required 4wd nor were you creating an errosive condition. Those are the 2 stipulations that would get you. Next, was it posted closed or bermed in any way? Was this state land or NFS? What type of officer wrote the ticket?

IMO, you should fight this ticket. Please contact AND LISTEN to Trail Fanatic. He should be able to give you some guidance.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 11:17 AM   #4
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He says drive on what "looks legal" to me that looks legal.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 11:25 AM   #5
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He says drive on what "looks legal"
What a stupid comment for an officer to make. If he could not tell which road "IS" legal, how can he ticket you?
They all look legal to me - does that make them legal then?
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Old June 28th, 2009, 12:27 PM   #6
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Did you read the last paragraph in the Mlive article?

Brower said he is concerned that law enforcement staff will start writing tickets before the new routes are clearly marked, but Arbogast assured that first year will involve extensive education for drivers. Tickets may come the second year.

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index....trucks_in.html
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Old June 28th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #7
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Did you read the last paragraph in the Mlive article?

Brower said he is concerned that law enforcement staff will start writing tickets before the new routes are clearly marked, but Arbogast assured that first year will involve extensive education for drivers. Tickets may come the second year.

http://www.mlive.com/outdoors/index....trucks_in.html
Yes I did - educate this year, tickets next year but looks to me like they are doing the opposite.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #8
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I like the presses use of the phrase "Big trucks" I know CurbDogs jeep is not considered "big" by any means, and If I had gone my Ram is STOCK with oversize tires.. The majority of "big trucks" that the press wants you to believe is "tearing up" our national forest ares with ruts "Several feet deep" are limited to mud bogs and ORV parks because of already strict Michigan lift laws. Hell, I am willing to bet SandViper was the most bilt rig there, and his is set up to tread lightly, serously, this is like red china where all gatherings by the people are considerd to be a threat to the goverment. When will the shooting start?
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Old June 28th, 2009, 01:54 PM   #9
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this is like red china where all gatherings by the people are considerd to be a threat to the goverment. When will the shooting start?
It seems to be turning that way.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 02:18 PM   #10
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My take on the whole thing is that someone on this site is one of the DNR or local sherrif and they were monitoring the origional thread. It looked like they were waiting for us. I personally think that they would have stopped us even if the leaders of the group wouldn't have made that wrong turn by mistake.

Freak is correct on my rig- I don't think that there are many rigs out there that can travel accross any terrain without leaving anything except a footprint even in the mudiest, loosest terrain. I can make it up test hill in 2wd and you can't even tell which line was mine unless I'm screwing around.

I just wish that the local authorities would spend their time busting real culprits for major offences like drinking and driving, drugs, and poaching. Those are the culprits that give everyone that like to play in the woods after dark a bad name.

I only wonder if they would have been waiting or patrolling if it was 3 in the afternoon.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 02:25 PM   #11
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My take on the whole thing is that someone on this site is one of the DNR or local sherrif and they were monitoring the origional thread. It looked like they were waiting for us. I personally think that they would have stopped us even if the leaders of the group wouldn't have made that wrong turn by mistake.

Freak is correct on my rig- I don't think that there are many rigs out there that can travel accross any terrain without leaving anything except a footprint even in the mudiest, loosest terrain. I can make it up test hill in 2wd and you can't even tell which line was mine unless I'm screwing around.

I just wish that the local authorities would spend their time busting real culprits for major offences like drinking and driving, drugs, and poaching. Those are the culprits that give everyone that like to play in the woods after dark a bad name.

I only wonder if they would have been waiting or patrolling if it was 3 in the afternoon.
You do have to admit, from 8pm-1am is the slowest period for the local pigs not many drunk drivers, donut shops are closed, most 9-5ers are home from work...
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Old June 28th, 2009, 02:35 PM   #12
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My take on the whole thing is that someone on this site is one of the DNR or local sherrif and they were monitoring the origional thread. It looked like they were waiting for us.

This guy from the origional post

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The Cedar Creek Trail system is for 50" or less ATV's. Not full sized street rigs. An OHV sticker is required. Unlelss you plan to ride the "county" road system most of the other user created tracks and hill climbs are not legal to ride. Just so you know.]
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Old June 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM   #13
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I also recieved a ticket. The DNR officer came to my window and asked for my license and registration, but never told me why he needed them. When he came back to the truck he proceded to give me a ticket with out stating why he stopped us in the first place. When i questioned my ticket he told me that we were illegaly offroad. I asked what roads were considered and he said that if it looks legal we can ride it. So looking at Curbdogs pics what doesnt look legal about that portion of the trail. We werent riding on the atv trails and we werent climbing hills, mud boggin or even makin ruts. I also believe that the DNR was waiting to ticket us( it is the end of the month and theres quotas to fill).
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Old June 28th, 2009, 05:48 PM   #14
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Ok first I want to say sorry to curbdog I was a lil pissed Last night and second to the other 3 rigs that got tickets we need to get toghter and see if we can get a court date all together because I also went and took a bunch of pics of my GPS also cuz the USF told me we were on a road and my GPS did not pick it up at all that were we was a road at all
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Old June 28th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #15
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your GPS wont show most of the 2tracks or forest roads, mine was the same way.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 06:37 PM   #16
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Is someone taking a collection to help these boys fight this crock of shit? those pencil necked meat gazers in brown and green are stomping on our rights and we need to stand up to them.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
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This guy from the origional post

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The Cedar Creek Trail system is for 50" or less ATV's. Not full sized street rigs. An OHV sticker is required. Unlelss you plan to ride the "county" road system most of the other user created tracks and hill climbs are not legal to ride. Just so you know.]

You guys act like it was a big secret with the DNR. He posted in your thread about the trip, it was clear as day that they were watching and gonna be waiting.

But I agree with everybody, with those pics I would of never questioned those trails, they look legit to me to be able to drive on.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #18
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the hole thing is a load of shit. i didnt get a ticket but thats messed up. im out there at least once a week tooling around and i would have NEVER thought that spot was illegal.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #19
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The NFS's web site gives this information on the trails we were on.

This is the map they provide.

Here is the spot we were issued our tickets.
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Old June 28th, 2009, 08:00 PM   #20
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Ok first I want to say sorry to curbdog I was a lil pissed Last night and second to the other 3 rigs that got tickets we need to get toghter and see if we can get a court date all together because I also went and took a bunch of pics of my GPS also cuz the USF told me we were on a road and my GPS did not pick it up at all that were we was a road at all
We are all good dude.

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