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Old December 16th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #61
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I think both Darryl and Bryce are right given the circumstances. I ran an early Bronco D44 with 35's and stock axles/joints. I could wheel all day long without breaking but I found myself having to be careful, because if I got a tire in the air and I was still under power, I would break a joint or shaft. If I was quick enough to get off the throttle I could save it. But, since I "like" to use my horsepower, I found it to be a bit of a nusiance. So, I upgraded to alloy shafts and super joints. Over the next 2 years, I NEVER broke anything in my front axle. I switched to 37's (measuring 36") and still did fine.

So, when I decided to do my linked suspension and go full width, I opted to go with a HPD44 Ford axle. I had it sitting in the garage ready to start building. We went to the Unlimited open house & Bryce was there with his tracker. True 37" stickie Trepadore tire. He got it twisted between 2 logs and with a simple burp of the throttle, he broke an alloy outer shaft. It got me to thinking that if Bryce could break an alloy shaft in a parking lot, is this what I want to base my build around? I opted to build a D60. I am absolutely positive that I have less money in my 60 than what I would have had in a blinged out 44 and I have beat the snot out of it with no problems. I've never had a problem hanging it up. I find a front dif is pretty easy to work around obstacles, it's usually the rear that is more likely to hang up.

So to the point, can a person wheel a D44 with 37's successfully? Yes, but you will eat u-joints over time and you will break if you run it hard. If you are a mild wheeler and work at being cautious, it will survive just fine.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapThrillB2 View Post
some are axle shaft cursed and others have the "gift" for axle shaft survival. I am one of the cursed ones, but i wheel with several others that are "Gifted" lol
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Old December 16th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #63
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Rubi owners can now have those bling bling longfields for their 44s. If they are anything like the Toy birfs, they'll take some big abuse.

My toy stuff held up just fine, until I moved to 38.5s, and really beat it(apparently blew the r & p's, although the rear was still driveable, and the front just popped from time to time). So I'm moving back to 37s, and taking 1000lbs out of the rig. No ball joints, great ground clearance and weight, blah...


I do think that with gas, economy, etc, people will be scalling back a bit.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #64
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Yeah i have noticed that more and more people are going back to streetable full bodied rigs and selling off buggied type vehicles that really are not streetable. I'm building one of each
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Old December 16th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheapThrillB2 View Post
some are axle shaft cursed and others have the "gift" for axle shaft survival. I am one of the cursed ones, but i wheel with several others that are "Gifted" lol
I was one of those gifted people for sure. I ran my d30 on 36's for 2 years and had great luck with the shafts. I only broke one and that was in a parking lot snow bank. I also ran the 8.25 with zero problems. Anyone who has seen me knows i was not afraid to give it gas but i also know what would break it.

Like Jesus my problem was ring and pinion. And it only broke when getting really stupid. If i was making some money and not in school i would have found a 60 most likely but for now i picked up my axles cheap and will run them stock until summer comes and i'll keep an eye out for a 60. I have no plans on upgrading the d44 unless it seems to be a "gifted" axle.

For now i'm doing what is in the budget so i can just wheel. If i have to use my winch more i will. For both my 44's i will have less into them then a d60 when i'm all done.

And one more thing it was only trailered to one event.

Last edited by Pre4runner; December 16th, 2008 at 10:15 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:05 PM   #66
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I consider mine to be as much or more streetable than when it was on 35's with the D44. I've run both setups 50 miles down the hwy at 55mph with no problems.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #67
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Been there...
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Originally Posted by brimy311 View Post
But yours held up
Oh yeah! I did however always have this feeling of "when's it gonna break" when I wheeled down south. Didn't like that feeling! And I did break a couple of hubs.

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So if your going to run 36's or 37's, wheel on some of the hardest trails within 900 miles, and are stupid enough to not back off and pull cable; a Dana 44 is not for you, alloys or not. If your willing to back down on an obstacle, pull cable, and drive smart, save $2K and go with the 44.
I think you are calling me stupid!


....


J/K
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:25 PM   #68
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I am considering a 60 in front to go along with my 60 rear. I have done good with my 44 up front (broke one shaft and blown u-joint) on hard trails but I'm with Kirby in that many obsticles make me pucker waiting for a "pop". I want to just have fun and not wait for it. Kinda like driving a clunker around always waiting for it to die on the side of the highway vs something solid that you could drive cross-country and not give it a second thought.

Sure things can be fixed and you move on but I'm not exactly knowledgeable on how to fix a lot of stuff (I'm learning as I go) but I'd rather just wheel and not stop to fix my stuff.

If I change to 60's f/r the clearance issues could be helped some with a larger tire. A larger tire won't let me go any other places then my 37's but I just want to keep doing what I have been with less worry.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:11 AM   #69
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If I change to 60's f/r the clearance issues could be helped some with a larger tire.

Just shave the 60s if'n you're worried about it. Pretty easy to give them the same clearance as a 44 center section.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #70
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Daryl is simply saying that he is tired of hearing everyone say "by the time you build your D44, you could have a D60." For $1000 (cost of a junkyard D60 front) you can have a D44, a gearset and an ARB. Everything on a D60 is MUCH MUCH more expensive; Bearings, Gears, ARB's (How does $1000 sound for one?), Shafts, Brakes, and Locking Hubs. If you build the D60 yourself with an ARB, Gears, new Brakes, New bearings, new hubs or drive flanges using STOCK SHAFTS, it will cost you nearly $4k.

Are there better axles to be built? Absolutly! But if you trying to be a cost effective wheeler, then go wheel D44's with 35's and have fun. If Tire size is hurting your Man-Meter, then be prepared to open your wallet and not just a little bit!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 10:27 AM   #71
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Daryl is simply saying that he is tired of hearing everyone say "by the time you build your D44, you could have a D60."

must suck to hate the truth!

I'll report back on my axles after I have some time on them... anyone considering a built dana 60 in the rear should think about a spider 9... if done correctly it is only about $500 more and the benefits are HUGE!

I would actually like to go wheeling with you guys some time next year.... I just hope I can keep up!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 10:29 AM   #72
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must suck to hate the truth!
I could give two Sh!ts about D44 or D60'. Fortunatly for Toyota guys like me, we have Longfields.

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I would actually like to go wheeling with you guys some time next year.... I just hope I can keep up!
Don't get your hopes up!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #73
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When I had 32's I dreamed of 33's.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:37 PM   #74
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I could give two Sh!ts about D44 or D60'. Fortunatly for Toyota guys like me, we have Longfields.



Don't get your hopes up!
I almost picked up an 8" for a rear axle. I want another toy
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:01 PM   #75
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......Some people don't know how to back off the skinny pedal when they should. They make up for lack of ability with skinny pedal........I like driving with finesse rather then trying to hammer over obstacles.
x2. If you do this and think a large crowd of people are watching you because your cool, your wrong. They just want to watch the unsafe idiot backing up into the last ZIP code put it in drive and hit the obstacle at 40 MPH, subsequently trashing his rig or himself.

True finesse is watching a group of ole' boys in 60/75 HP flatties/early 5's travel over the con' on 33's/34's & Dana 44's.

After the lift law changed back in 1992 I never saw the need for anything bigger than 35's on a vehicle that would see any road use. With everyone now a day so badly needing Dana 60's on their primarily street driven rigs I can see 37's being the new 'normal' to get diff clearance back. or more likely impress all the other kids at the mall
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Old December 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #76
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My D60 costs. Please accept the fact that some numbers are rough from memory.
Axle with lockouts: $700
Shortened alloy axle shaft $180 ish
Detroit Locker $600 ish
R&P/bearings: $400 ish
5 on 5.5 conversion. $150 for the brackets. I wouldn't add in calipers/pads/rotors because many junk yard axles would require the same regardless of size. I also re used the bearings because they were in great condition. If I'm forgetting something I'll add it in.

Total; $2030

I re used all other shafts. I did my own conversions for the 5 on 5.5.


Now making some wild ass guesses on a D44:
Axle with lockouts: $150
Shortened axle shaft $150 ish
Detroit Locker $550 ish
R&P/bearings: $350 ish

Sub Total: $1200
Now add in the other alloy shafts required.
$350 ish for shafts.
$360 for super joints.

Total: $1910

OK, maybe my 60 isn't cheaper but it's within $100 (rough estimate) and a hell of a lot stronger. AND, if I find I need to beef it up, upgrades will make it even better.

I know many of you have sarcasm for someone who has, and uses horsepower. You also feel you have more finesse that someone with horsepower. Well, I guess that's your perogative to have the opinion that someone with horsepower doesn't use finesse. I disagree. Sure, there are those that are hammer down guys. I would like to believe that I don't fall into that catagory. But here's where I see the difference. You and I may both try to finesse an obstacle. When you give up, you pull cable or back out. When I give up, I try my horsepower. Does it always work? NOPE, not at all. But sometimes it does. And, then there are those times where you won't even attempt an obstacle (such as a steep sand hill) because you know you can't make it. I have never had criticizm for those who choose to run a 4 or 6 cylinder. It's a personal choice. I think it's insulting to generally catagorize a person with a V8 as an unsafe idiot.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #77
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I know your not an unsafe idiot Jim and I hope you'd know that I would never infer that. I believe most high HP rig owners aren't either, it wasn't meant as a blanket statement. The above was specifically meant toward the hammer down guys (of any engine displacement) that consistantly place lives, property and the sport at risk via their negligence. The ones that make no effort on having, or learning, skill or finesse; so they build to compensate for it.


Orig. cost of my front 44:
Junkyard Scout 44 .................$150
Used 4:88's from postal jeep.....$40
Used Detroit locker ................$300
Narrowed housing at home ......$0.00
Cut/respline long side .............$65.00
Re-use all brakes bearings .......$0.00
Total....................................$555

Sometimes I also find myself getting sucked into the hype of overbuilding. I put all ChroMo shafts in when I put a 'soft' locker in the front, even though the other shafts lasted years with an old school locker.

Can't say the 60's for the CJ8 are as cost effective
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Old December 17th, 2008, 04:09 PM   #78
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Mike,
I know you on a personal level and didn't take it as a personal attack. (you can cement that by buying me a beer) But I also wanted to set the record straight that I disagree with the hammer down stereotype. I see it stated quite often as though those that wheel with a smaller/less hp rig are more skilled than those that sport a V8. I just took this opportunity to speak my mind.

I noticed that you did not include the price of your alloy shafts. Since you felt the need to add them, could you add them to the price of your front axle build?
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Old December 17th, 2008, 04:20 PM   #79
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Well I went from 1992-2008 with stock shafts and no failures, that's why I didn't add them in. Two shafts, two stubs and 8 full circle clipe were $632 shipped.

Now the F'ers will probably break
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Old December 17th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #80
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I know many of you have sarcasm for someone who has, and uses horsepower. You also feel you have more finesse that someone with horsepower. Well, I guess that's your perogative to have the opinion that someone with horsepower doesn't use finesse. I disagree. Sure, there are those that are hammer down guys. I would like to believe that I don't fall into that catagory. But here's where I see the difference. You and I may both try to finesse an obstacle. When you give up, you pull cable or back out. When I give up, I try my horsepower. Does it always work? NOPE, not at all. But sometimes it does. And, then there are those times where you won't even attempt an obstacle (such as a steep sand hill) because you know you can't make it. I have never had criticizm for those who choose to run a 4 or 6 cylinder. It's a personal choice. I think it's insulting to generally catagorize a person with a V8 as an unsafe idiot.

I wasn't having sarcasm for someone that has and used HP. I have a V8 in my YJ and doubled the HP in the flatty with the V6... I still will pull cable or take a strap before I ever hammer down (unless it is obvious that a little more skinny pedal will probably do it). I'd rather not risk a break that may delay the group or the amount of wheeling I get to do that day/that weekend. I like a challenge but I hate equipment failure more if it could be avoided by an extra 5 minutes pulling cable or taking a strap.

Part of that goes to the fact I don't have a tow rig and drive my stuff to and from the trails (the flatty gets towed if Adam is willing)
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