Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 30th, 2008, 10:34 PM   #1
XXXJ
Desert Rat
 
XXXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-07
Location: Memphis, Mi
Posts: 5,411
iTrader: (10)
Obama and guns

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bama-and-guns/

Obama and guns

In speech after speech, Barack Obama has claimed he would "uphold the Second Amendment." Mr. Obama, of course, is a polished speaker who says "words matter." But records matter more. And while Mr. Obama is short on experience on most issues, he's long on anti-gun votes and even longer on rhetoric. Now's a good time to review both.
One of Mr. Obama's first statements on the issue really said it all. During his first run for the Illinois Senate in 1996, Mr. Obama said on a candidate questionnaire that he supported legislation to "ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." When challenged about the questionnaire earlier this year, Mr. Obama blamed others, saying his campaign staff had filled out the questionnaire incorrectly. (Unfortunately for that story, a version of the questionnaire later appeared bearing Mr. Obama's own handwriting.)
Questionnaires aside, Mr. Obama has supported handgun bans even when they trap people who defend themselves. In a 2003 case, a resident of Wilmette, Ill., used a handgun to defend himself from a burglar with a drug habit and a long criminal record, breaking into his home for the second day in a row. Though authorities found the shooting justified, the armed citizen was charged with possessing a handgun in violation of Wilmette's handgun ban.
Illinois lawmakers proposed legislation that would make self-defense an "affirmative defense" against prosecution for handgun possession in towns like Wilmette. Mr. Obama voted four times against the measure, which passed over his opposition, and over a veto by Illinois' anti-gun governor, Rod Blagojevich, a long-time Obama ally.
Self-defense at home or outside the home - it's all just as bad to Mr. Obama.
In 2004, he said he was "consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry," and that he'd back "federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement." Mr. Obama had already put that anti-self-defense belief into action in 2001, voting against a state Senate bill that would have allowed people who receive protective orders - such as domestic violence victims - to carry firearms. Why? Because, in Mr. Obama's world, "authorizing potential victims to carry firearms would potentially lead to a more dangerous rather than less dangerous situation It was a bad idea and I'm glad it failed," he said.
Mr. Obama also claims he's no threat to hunters.
But in 2005, he voted for a ban on all but the smallest rifle ammunition used for hunting (or for anything else). If the measure had passed, it would have classified most rifle ammunition beyond the low-powered .22 caliber as "armor piercing ammunition," prohibited for civilian manufacture by federal law. The ammunition ban was hardly Mr. Obama's first act against hunters, either. In 1999, Mr. Obama proposed increasing firearm and ammunition excise taxes by 500 percent. Right now, a rifle that a manufacturer sells for $500 carries an excise tax of $55. Under Mr. Obama's proposal, that amount would rocket to $330. This would turn a tax willingly paid by sportsmen, which funds many of our wildlife conservation programs, into a tool to punish gun buyers.
Also, while Mr. Obama promises hunters, "I will not take your shotgun away," his votes tell a different story.
In 2003, while serving on the Illinois state Senate's Judiciary Committee, Mr. Obama voted for a bill that would have banned (as so-called "semi-automatic assault weapons") most single-shot and double-barreled shotguns, along with hundreds of models of rifles and handguns. If the bill had passed, any Illinois resident who possessed one of these guns 90 days after legislation went into effect, would have faced felony charges. What was that about not taking shotguns away?
As if voting for anti-gun plans wasn't bad enough, Mr. Obama also helped pay for them. He was a board member from 1994 to 2001 of the anti-gun Joyce Foundation, which is the largest source of funding for radical anti-gun groups in the country. On Mr. Obama's watch, Joyce donated $18.6 million to approximately 80 anti-gun efforts, including $1.5 million to the Violence Policy Center, the nation's most aggressive gun-prohibitionist group. Many of the Joyce Foundation's projects were aimed at editing the Second Amendment out of the Constitution.
But an Obama Supreme Court could do that more directly. Mr. Obama has said he would not have nominated Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. It was Justice Scalia who wrote the majority opinion in D.C. v. Heller, which declared that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, and that D.C.'s handgun ban is unconstitutional. Justice Thomas joined in that opinion. As a member of the U.S. Senate, Mr. Obama also voted against confirming Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito, both of whom joined Justice Scalia's majority opinion in Heller. That means four of the five pro-freedom votes on the Supreme Court would not have been there under an Obama presidency.
This is the real Barack Obama. This record matches the attitude Mr. Obama revealed when he said rural Pennsylvanians are "bitter" and "cling to guns." This record matches what you would expect to emerge from a Chicago political machine where an unrepentant terrorist is "respectable" and "mainstream."
Finally, with no way to run from his record, Mr. Obama resorts to the ultimate political dodge. Does he support gun registration? "I don't think that we can get that done." Banning guns? "I couldn't get it done. I don't have the votes in Congress."
These efforts to ease gun owners' fears should make any gun owner ask, "Wait why is he counting all these votes already?" Instead of this not-so-reassuring rhetoric, gun owners deserve the truth. And the truth is clear: Barack Obama would be the most anti-gun president in history - bar none.
XXXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 06:41 AM   #2
Infinite_Wisdumb
.
 
Join Date: 05-18-06
Location: mi
Posts: 1,042
iTrader: (0)
Definitely a good read. It may be worth looking into some of the statements made to prove their factuality due to the source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_W._Cox

But if what Mr. Cox says is true, it does appear that Obama is certainly over the top on this one.
Infinite_Wisdumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 08:24 AM   #3
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
I would love to see obama get in office and do this.
1. take away guns
2. remove the right to vote (afterall he is the one who said americans are too dumb to vote)

then sit back a watch americans shit their pants.
ovrlnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 08:47 AM   #4
greygoose
I'm the dude
 
greygoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-18-08
Location: New Baltimore / Presque Isle
Posts: 6,078
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
then sit back a watch americans shit their pants.
Or overthrow him, I don't think the country would sit idly bye.
greygoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 09:00 AM   #5
XXXJ
Desert Rat
 
XXXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-07
Location: Memphis, Mi
Posts: 5,411
iTrader: (10)
The part that slays me is the people who will ignore his past deeds and associates. His words when he is not being guided by a teleprompter. And blindly accept what he is saying to get elected.
XXXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 09:03 AM   #6
buddha
playing life by 'ear'
 
buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-07
Location: 48197
Posts: 458
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXJ View Post
The part that slays me is the people who will ignore his past deeds and associates. His words when he is not being guided by a teleprompter. And blindly accept what he is saying to get elected.
but he's going to save the united states...


buddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 09:04 AM   #7
03hemisilver
Pres MI Dodgetruckworld
 
03hemisilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-22-07
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 1,721
iTrader: (30)
If, he gets elected, his heads gonna spin around like the exorcist.

I can't stand him, he's got all these connections to really questionable people, and the sheeple will vote for him.

Remember, vote early, in case they find more shi# on him, too late, you already voted for him.

Vote Early, Vote Often, is my motto
__________________
80 CJ frame, YJ body, 304 cid, 4" lift, 35"s, 4.10's, locked, 8K winch, garage queen
2012 F150 4x4 Lariat Supercrew Ecoboost
03hemisilver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 09:32 AM   #8
Infinite_Wisdumb
.
 
Join Date: 05-18-06
Location: mi
Posts: 1,042
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
I would love to see obama get in office and do this.
1. take away guns
2. remove the right to vote (afterall he is the one who said americans are too dumb to vote)

then sit back a watch americans shit their pants.
dude

where do you come up with this stuff?

the senate is split, there will be no ban on guns.

take away the right to vote? are you on meds for your high blood pressure and you took too many? you must be delusional.
Infinite_Wisdumb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:03 AM   #9
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Wisdumb View Post
dude

where do you come up with this stuff?

the senate is split, there will be no ban on guns.

take away the right to vote? are you on meds for your high blood pressure and you took too many? you must be delusional.
read your history. the only thing missing from the obama teleprompted speeches and elaborate productions is Leni Riefenstahl.

he will find a way. all socialist dictators do. read your history

the messiah himself has said:
the people are too dumb to vote
the constitution is flawed
I want to take away guns
spread the wealth.

you underestimate the evil you are voting for.

once you vote for him it's over. you cannot undo the vote once he starts to take away your rights should he decide to.
what he says at rallies and in the public is not what he intends to do. you need to learn that.

Last edited by ovrlnd; October 31st, 2008 at 10:06 AM.
ovrlnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:30 AM   #10
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,107
iTrader: (1)
Uh, guys there is no federal right to vote. It doesn't have to, but your state allows you to vote in federal elections.
3-foot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:38 AM   #11
buddha
playing life by 'ear'
 
buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-07
Location: 48197
Posts: 458
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Uh, guys there is no federal right to vote. It doesn't have to, but your state allows you to vote in federal elections.

- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

buddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:46 AM   #12
Stan
I got a gold chain
 
Stan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Shelby Twp.
Posts: 15,610
iTrader: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddha View Post
- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

Thats the way I feel about Obama supporters.

Never seen so much stupid in my life.
Stan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:55 AM   #13
buddha
playing life by 'ear'
 
buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-07
Location: 48197
Posts: 458
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan View Post
Thats the way I feel about Obama supporters.

Never seen so much stupid in my life.
unfortunately, you and me both.
buddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 10:57 AM   #14
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,107
iTrader: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan View Post
Thats the way I feel about Obama supporters.

Never seen so much stupid in my life.
Not all of them are stupid. There are two types of Obama supporters....

The one's that don't know and don't care. (ignorant)

The one's that do know and don't care. (stupid)
3-foot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 11:08 AM   #15
03hemisilver
Pres MI Dodgetruckworld
 
03hemisilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-22-07
Location: Northville, MI
Posts: 1,721
iTrader: (30)
Gun stores are doing big business these days despite the sluggish economy.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=9263251

Obama scares the masses into gun stores, I love it!
__________________
80 CJ frame, YJ body, 304 cid, 4" lift, 35"s, 4.10's, locked, 8K winch, garage queen
2012 F150 4x4 Lariat Supercrew Ecoboost
03hemisilver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 11:22 AM   #16
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
let the stockpiling commence.
ovrlnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 01:12 PM   #17
TJJEEP
Senior Member
 
TJJEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Orchard Lake
Posts: 2,698
iTrader: (2)
Send a message via AIM to TJJEEP Send a message via MSN to TJJEEP
i love how people think that it can't happen. Until recently handguns were banned in Chicago. And i think they are still banned in DC but i could be wrong. I bet people thought that couldn't happen either.

And there are other alternatives to just banning them that could be just as bad. Oh you want guns? a box of ammo is now $350 or tax on guns is now up 1,000%

the amendment is open to interpretation. Right to bear arms- What arms? How many? At what times? How much will it cost?
__________________
May the Sparks be with you
TJJEEP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 01:28 PM   #18
ovrlnd
HURL SCOUTS
 
ovrlnd's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-23-07
Location: Westland, Michigan
Posts: 10,003
iTrader: (14)
Send a message via AIM to ovrlnd
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJEEP View Post
i love how people think that it can't happen. Until recently handguns were banned in Chicago. And i think they are still banned in DC but i could be wrong. I bet people thought that couldn't happen either.

And there are other alternatives to just banning them that could be just as bad. Oh you want guns? a box of ammo is now $350 or tax on guns is now up 1,000%

the amendment is open to interpretation. Right to bear arms- What arms? How many? At what times? How much will it cost?
x2
the obama's power is coming from the fact he has hoodwinked people into believing he is an honest fair man with their intentions first. like fools they believe him.
ovrlnd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old October 31st, 2008, 01:30 PM   #19
buddha
playing life by 'ear'
 
buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-07
Location: 48197
Posts: 458
iTrader: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddha View Post
- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups


like i already said.
buddha is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.21571 seconds with 50 queries