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View Poll Results: Who are you voting for?
Mccain 212 76.26%
Obama 66 23.74%
Voters: 278. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 14th, 2008, 05:41 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by steveo View Post
oh, so your speaking on behalf of families of kia veterans and you haven't lost a family member or friend?? why don't you let them speak for themselves. i know if one of my friends or family members had died over there i wouldn't want a ass like you demeaning their service and sacrifice.
Have you had a family member die in Iraq? I'm not saying that they havn't done anything, I'm saying that the 300,000 Iraqi troops we trained need to start taking charge. We can't stay there forever. Sometime we need to let their people take charge of their people and drop out troop numbers down. I know that our troops have done a lot of good there, but we can't stay there forever. We also need to get troops to go after the Al Quida, remember, the ones who are currently the most dangerous terrorist group in the world.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #162
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You can't say "This WILL happen" because in reality, nobody knows the future. Just like McCain said that the war in Iraq would be quick and we would be treated like liberators. Now he looks like an ass.

BTW, I think McCain was running out of ammo in the debate last night. He brought up some old stuff about Obama that has already been proven to be false.
I would like him to bring up some more old stuff, like the fact Obama has Raines on his team, you know, the Fanny Mae guy, or the old college paper by Obama, you know the one praising communism and declaring it as the way the U.S. should be run, or the old medical records, or even the new ones that give details as to Oppies prescription anti depressents that he so enjoys.

I wonder if they will be part of his medical revamping.

Maybe some old proposed Oppie laws that would outlaw handguns for the private sector, including the middle class.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #163
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@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.

Economy? If this is the extent of your understanding of his economic plans, you need further education on the issue.

Military? So now one must have been in the military in order to command it? Military people run countries like Pakistan, Cuba, and the former Saddam-controlled Iraq. The military is supposed to be run by a citizen, not a soldier, lest we end up like the countries mentioned above. Obama is not "afraid" to use force.

Government spending: The republican president just socialized risk and is the highest-spending president in history. Clinton left the country with a surplus.

Seems to me, Obama fits in there pretty well.

Granholm, FYI, was handed a shitty situation with which she has done more than could be expected from any governor.... Imagine if Palin was our gov. YIKES
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Old October 14th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Black Magic XJ View Post
@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.

Economy? If this is the extent of your understanding of his economic plans, you need further education on the issue.

Military? So now one must have been in the military in order to command it? Military people run countries like Pakistan, Cuba, and the former Saddam-controlled Iraq. The military is supposed to be run by a citizen, not a soldier, lest we end up like the countries mentioned above. Obama is not "afraid" to use force.

Government spending: The republican president just socialized risk and is the highest-spending president in history. Clinton left the country with a surplus.

Seems to me, Obama fits in there pretty well.

Granholm, FYI, was handed a shitty situation with which she has done more than could be expected from any governor.... Imagine if Palin was our gov. YIKES

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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Old October 14th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #165
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

X2
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Old October 14th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #166
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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X2
It's a joke. Bait.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #167
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@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.
This is just what he has done and said. On the record. Fact.
Barack Obama on Gun Control

Democratic nomine for President; Junior Senator (IL)




Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.
Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?
A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets. Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008
FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."

Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views." Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008
Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok

Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions. Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008
Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets. Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008
2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007
Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.

When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."
It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police. Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007
Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities

Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?

A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now. Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007
Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality

I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban

KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.

OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban. Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004
Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

  • Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
  • Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
  • Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
  • Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998
Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
  • Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
  • Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
  • Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
  • Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
  • Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005
  • Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. (Apr 2008)
  • FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban. (Apr 2008)
  • Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok. (Feb 2008)
  • Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing. (Jan 2008)
  • 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month. (Oct 2007)
  • Concealed carry OK for retired police officers. (Aug 2007)
  • Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities. (Jul 2007)
  • Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality. (Oct 2006)
  • Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban. (Oct 2004)
  • Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions. (Jul 1998)
  • Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers. (Jul 2005)
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Old October 14th, 2008, 09:26 PM   #168
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@XXXJ:

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.
It is called a Jihad.
Muslims are religous zealots, convert to Islam or we kill you. They have been doing this shit for a thousand years.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 05:27 AM   #169
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oh, so your speaking on behalf of families of kia veterans and you haven't lost a family member or friend?? why don't you let them speak for themselves. i know if one of my friends or family members had died over there i wouldn't want a ass like you demeaning their service and sacrifice.
I also assume that you heard McCain on Letterman say that so many American lives have been WASTED in Iraq?
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #170
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Wow, there's a lot more commies on this board than I thought.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:19 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Black Magic XJ View Post
@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.

Economy? If this is the extent of your understanding of his economic plans, you need further education on the issue.

Military? So now one must have been in the military in order to command it? Military people run countries like Pakistan, Cuba, and the former Saddam-controlled Iraq. The military is supposed to be run by a citizen, not a soldier, lest we end up like the countries mentioned above. Obama is not "afraid" to use force.

Government spending: The republican president just socialized risk and is the highest-spending president in history. Clinton left the country with a surplus.

Seems to me, Obama fits in there pretty well.

Granholm, FYI, was handed a shitty situation with which she has done more than could be expected from any governor.... Imagine if Palin was our gov. YIKES
awnser one question find a gun control law obama has voted against and then i will belive it and not voting is the same as voting yes
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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #172
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awnser one question find a gun control law obama has voted against and then i will belive it and not voting is the same as voting yes
that too.
But he voted yes for every one.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:34 PM   #173
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i know that but i dont think black magic did
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Old October 15th, 2008, 01:46 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Black Magic XJ View Post
@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.

Economy? If this is the extent of your understanding of his economic plans, you need further education on the issue.

Military? So now one must have been in the military in order to command it? Military people run countries like Pakistan, Cuba, and the former Saddam-controlled Iraq. The military is supposed to be run by a citizen, not a soldier, lest we end up like the countries mentioned above. Obama is not "afraid" to use force.

Government spending: The republican president just socialized risk and is the highest-spending president in history. Clinton left the country with a surplus.

Seems to me, Obama fits in there pretty well.

Granholm, FYI, was handed a shitty situation with which she has done more than could be expected from any governor.... Imagine if Palin was our gov. YIKES
http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=103904
that is what obama wants for our guns

and granholm has done a good job????? what the hell are you smoking?
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Old October 15th, 2008, 02:20 PM   #175
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA




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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


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Old October 15th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #176
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MCCAIN
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Old October 15th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by Black Magic XJ View Post
@XXXJ:

BS. Obama isn't going to take your (or my) guns away.
But he wants to.

Obama wants DIALOGUE with people that may want to cause harm. Ever had a conversation with someone before it turned into a fist fight? Sometimes that works better and no "bombs" get dropped.
Sometimes Pearl Harbor gets bombed during the dialogue.

Economy? If this is the extent of your understanding of his economic plans, you need further education on the issue.
Who is this guy Raines, and who is he working for?

Military? So now one must have been in the military in order to command it? Military people run countries like Pakistan, Cuba, and the former Saddam-controlled Iraq. The military is supposed to be run by a citizen, not a soldier, lest we end up like the countries mentioned above. Obama is not "afraid" to use force.
How do you know that???

Government spending: The republican president just socialized risk and is the highest-spending president in history. Clinton left the country with a surplus.
What is this Barrack Oclinton, or Husain Bush.
Clinton left the country with a depleated Reagan surplus.
Greenspan warned us of the next ten years being in the shitter before the 2000 elections, due to Clintonomics.
I guess you missed that speech??


Seems to me, Obama fits in there pretty well.
Your probally right, Clinton sucked as well.

Granholm, FYI, was handed a shitty situation with which she has done more than could be expected from any governor.... Imagine if Palin was our gov. YIKES
To suggest Granholm is anything other that an idiot shows you have no clue as what is going on.
She even has her own party condeming he stupid actions.
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