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Old October 9th, 2008, 11:22 PM   #61
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the problem with openeing this up to the public is that all hunters arent safe. i know alot of us here are avid hunters that believe in humane one shot kills. we practice alot with our weapons and are ethical hunters. but there is alot of people who are not and you cant descriminate when handing out liscences. i refuse to hunt state land any more because of the dumbass wingnuts out there winging bullets left and right.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #62
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i shoot thousands of rounds every year but for every person like me there is a guy that never shoots at all and is not capable of making safe shots.
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Old October 9th, 2008, 11:33 PM   #63
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they have had this situation before in other city's across the country and they require a special training class there are some cops that are even more insane than the biggest degenerit ie the police officer in gennesse county who shot a sea gull a fedraley protected species in a public park
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/archery-hunting.php
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Old October 10th, 2008, 12:08 AM   #64
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you are still not listening pp, so i am going to quit trying to get you to understand. they get to use bait? son of a bitch!! the use of a silencer does not affect accuracy, it does affect the point of impact. a 308 Winchester subsonic round fired from a silenced rifle will have less range and killing power at range. this would actually make it a better choice for the urban environment than the full power loads. still not a better choice than a shotgun.
What I understand is that you want this to be entertaining and sporting when its just a task. I don't know if they will get to use bait, but that would be the most efficient manner in which to conduct an extermination exercise. The point is to kill the animals, fair or not.


And your "box of truth" proves my point, so I have no idea why you even posted it:
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Originally Posted by Steveo's Box of Rocks...err, I mean "Truth"
2. At moderate ranges (20 yards), the loads had an average spread of around 9 to 17 inches. This is getting big enough that, unless carefully aimed, many pellets will miss a bad guy.

3. At long ranges, even 45 yards, you will miss with more pellets that you will hit with.

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the use of a silencer does not affect accuracy, it does affect the point of impact.
And WTF with you talking all big about shooting and not understanding the definition of accuracy? A round, or even a tight shot group, that does not land (point of impact) where you aim it is not "accurate".
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Old October 10th, 2008, 12:29 AM   #65
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no he wants to know what happens to the round when it exits the animal a 308 will blow right threw it and then into my nephews room or into my cousins bed or into grandmas mini van. see what im saying sport has nothing to do with it these high caliber rounds can be accuret to well beyond 300 yards and can be leatheal well beyond that range. sniper or not i have seen high caliber rounds hit a shoulder blade of a deer and come out threw the hind end what happens to the round after the deer is dead?
a bow on the other hand shoots at a much lower fps and it is not going to be leathel beyond 75-80 yards which is safer in a urban enviorment
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Old October 10th, 2008, 06:12 AM   #66
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And WTF with you talking all big about shooting and not understanding the definition of accuracy? A round, or even a tight shot group, that does not land (point of impact) where you aim it is not "accurate".
whatever. it doesn't effect accuracy because once you attach the silencer you re zero the rifle. you still shoot consistent groups, meaning its still accurate. only a idiot would alter his firearm and not check to see if it was still on target. if your a typical American soldier, no wonder we cant get the job done in Iraq. please go peddle some junk and stop pretending to know shit about guns.

Last edited by steveo; October 10th, 2008 at 06:24 AM.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 06:58 AM   #67
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haha, your a bigot. not all hunters are yahoo's who drive trucks. all of the dutch smoke pot, fornicate sheep, wear clogs, live in windmills, grow tulips and have sore fingers from sticking them in dykes.

And you sir would not know a sarcastic comment if it bit you on the nose. Joe Yahoo is the perception of many when you talk about hunters. And this is what the residents of this area will tell the city council if they try to have any kind of an open hunt. (Don't know if I have said this, but I am a hunter, and certainly not a Joe Yahoo)

And thank you for immediately bringing my nationality into this conversation. Did not take you long to latch on to that little bit of information and twist it into your spin. Nice job. Nice character. I can see it flowing with other retorts you are making to people you do not agree with.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 07:19 AM   #68
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no he wants to know what happens to the round when it exits the animal a 308 will blow right threw it and then into my nephews room or into my cousins bed or into grandmas mini van. see what im saying sport has nothing to do with it these high caliber rounds can be accuret to well beyond 300 yards and can be leatheal well beyond that range. sniper or not i have seen high caliber rounds hit a shoulder blade of a deer and come out threw the hind end what happens to the round after the deer is dead?
a bow on the other hand shoots at a much lower fps and it is not going to be leathel beyond 75-80 yards which is safer in a urban enviorment
when you use self protection rounds such as TAP's they are meant to have limited penetration. if you are using a fmj, or a traditional bonded bullet like we use for hunting yes they will go through and keep going. but the rounds that the urban sniper uses are not built like that. you have bullets like the barnes tsx that have 100% weight retention and super deep penetration and on the other end of the spectrum you have the barnes grenades that will fragment when they hit a grape and everything in between. you have to know what to use in a certain situation.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 08:58 AM   #69
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you still shoot consistent groups, meaning its still accurate.
Yeah, that's consistency, which is not accuracy - at all. A tight shot group that is not on target means you are consistent - as in, you are controlling your breathing, have a good trigger squeeze, and are repeating your sight picture effectively. None of those things control where the bullet hits relative to where the sights are aimed, because they do not change the accuracy of the weapon itself. Seriously, dude - I don't need you to believe me. If you don't understand the difference, spend some time talking to an instructor. Maybe your problem is that someone taught you the language and conceptual terminology incorrectly in the first place.

I have no issue with your comment about re-zeroing the weapon. That part of your comment was correct and I agree with it. However, you need to stop contradicting yourself when you backpeddle.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 09:05 AM   #70
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Shotguns are not accurate. Bows....I don't think they need a bunch of half dead deer running around with arrows in their side.

I don't care how good of a hunter you think you are, professionals are going to be safer in this act that a group of hunters. Sorry. Law enforcement, as much as we may dislike them, have training they must go through. Hunters do not. Mistakes may still happen, but they will be much less likely with the professionals than hunters.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 09:22 AM   #71
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city life sux
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #72
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And you sir would not know a sarcastic comment if it bit you on the nose.
ditto.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #73
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Yeah, that's consistency, which is not accuracy - at all. A tight shot group that is not on target means you are consistent - as in, you are controlling your breathing, have a good trigger squeeze, and are repeating your sight picture effectively. None of those things control where the bullet hits relative to where the sights are aimed, because they do not change the accuracy of the weapon itself. Seriously, dude - I don't need you to believe me. If you don't understand the difference, spend some time talking to an instructor. Maybe your problem is that someone taught you the language and conceptual terminology incorrectly in the first place.

I have no issue with your comment about re-zeroing the weapon. That part of your comment was correct and I agree with it. However, you need to stop contradicting yourself when you backpeddle.
i am a target shooter and a varminter. maybe i am confused on the terminology, but i have spent time with an instructor. i build my own rifles, sight them in, load my own bullets and do very long distance shots at small targets. i know how to control and count my heartbeats and breathing, i am well trained in shooting. i have killed dozens of deer for farmers in my area using crop damage permits. we can talk all day long, but i know i am a excellent shot, and know what i am doing. come do some shooting with me at the end of the month, i am gonna be sighting in my newest varmint rifle.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:46 AM   #74
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when you use self protection rounds such as TAP's they are meant to have limited penetration. if you are using a fmj, or a traditional bonded bullet like we use for hunting yes they will go through and keep going. but the rounds that the urban sniper uses are not built like that. you have bullets like the barnes tsx that have 100% weight retention and super deep penetration and on the other end of the spectrum you have the barnes grenades that will fragment when they hit a grape and everything in between. you have to know what to use in a certain situation.
who uses fmj for hunting first off it is unethical because it causes the least amount of hydrostatic shock. and how will they keep the cost to the city free if they don't have ammo on hand like honcho said and i know standerd hunting load for me cost between 30 and 50 dollars a box. and they will need to kill more than a hundred deer that cost could be in the thousands of dollars and who is paying for it not to menching some law enforcement officers are worthless cowboy types who don't check there back stops your going to end up with civillians being hurt. it would be much safer to have bow hunters the down side you have to see a wounded deer from time to time. and even if you hit a deer with a high caliber round whos to say if dosent run ive had to help track deer more than a mile hit with a 338 win mag in the lungs
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Old October 10th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #75
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who uses fmj for hunting first off it is unethical because it causes the least amount of hydrostatic shock. and even if you hit a deer with a high caliber round whos to say if dosent run ive had to help track deer more than a mile hit with a 338 win mag in the lungs.
x2 on the fmj they are useless, i have seen people shoot a deer with them and injure the deer behind it. I use 175 grain swift a frames for deer hunting from my 7mm mag and Barnes triple shock's out of my 308/7.62x54r. opens them up like a dropped melon.
if you had to track a deer that was lung shot with a 338, by lung you probably meant guts.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 11:03 AM   #76
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x2 on the fmj they are useless, i have seen people shoot a deer with them and injure the deer behind it. I use 175 grain swift a frames for deer hunting from my 7mm mag and Barnes triple shock's out of my 308/7.62x54r. opens them up like a dropped melon.
if you had to track a deer that was lung shot with a 338, by lung you probably meant guts.
no it was lung shot hit left lung exited the bottom of the brisket and broke right leg he was shooting down hill what sucked was the deer could only travel up hill
bullet was a trophy bonded bear claw from 30 yards mosin isn't comprabil to a 308 closer to a 300 i shoot nosler partition out of my mosin
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Old October 10th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #77
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no it was lung shot hit left lung exited the bottom of the brisket and broke right leg he was shooting down hill what sucked was the deer could only travel up hill
bullet was a trophy bonded bear claw from 30 yards mosin isn't comprabil to a 308 closer to a 300 i shoot nosler partition out of my mosin
All I get from this is that you shoot muslims out of your nose.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 12:33 PM   #78
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All I get from this is that you shoot muslims out of your nose.
Watch out, Mr. Green is going to get mad at you for making fun of people...
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Old October 10th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #79
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Watch out, Mr. Green is going to get mad at you for making fun of people...
Mr. Green is pretarted.
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Old October 10th, 2008, 02:58 PM   #80
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no it was lung shot hit left lung exited the bottom of the brisket and broke right leg he was shooting down hill what sucked was the deer could only travel up hill
bullet was a trophy bonded bear claw from 30 yards mosin isn't comprabil to a 308 closer to a 300 i shoot nosler partition out of my mosin
thats 308 winchester AND 7.62x54r. .308 win is 308 diameter and 7.62x54r is .311 diameter. 300 win mag is much more powerful than 54r, its a belted magnum for petes sake.
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