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Old September 6th, 2008, 01:43 PM   #101
brewmenn
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
That may be true, but he is human and I don't expect people to go and verify everything that is said to them by others.
He was embellishing what Palin said. She (at least in her speech) never claimed to have SOLD it on Ebay, nor did she say they made a profit.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 01:52 PM   #102
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He was embellishing what Palin said. She (at least in her speech) never claimed to have SOLD it on Ebay, nor did she say they made a profit.
But it shows a fast simple solution.
The upkeep on a jet like that is $$expensive$$.

I worked for the feds for thirty years and the waste and destruction I personally witnessed is unfathomable. And I know I only seen a little bit of whats out there.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #103
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:29 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
That may be true, but he is human and I don't expect people to go and verify everything that is said to them by others.
Well since they both are using professional speech writers you think they want to keep their facts straight.

Or McCain could just go to Snopes.com and find out all about Palin.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/kilkenny.asp

Quote:
A note to all by Anne Kilkenny

Dear friends,

So many people have asked me about what I know about Sarah Palin in the
last 2 days that I decided to write something up . . .

Basically, Sarah Palin and Hillary Clinton have only 2 things in
common: their gender and their good looks.

You have my permission to forward this to your friends/email contacts
with my name and email address attached, but please do not post it on
any websites, as there are too many kooks out there . . .

Thanks,
Anne

ABOUT SARAH PALIN

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992.
Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a
first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her
father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a
first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more
City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the
residents of the city.

She is enormously popular; in every way she’s like the most popular
girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and
won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because
she is a "babe".

It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She
kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents
for seven months.

She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby.
There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.

She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.

She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out
there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.

Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a
champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin’s kind of job is highly
sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his
work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or
so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their
major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything
like that of native Alaskans.

Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.

She's smart.

Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000
(at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about
670,000 residents.

During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running
this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been
pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had
gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had
given rise to a recall campaign.

Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a “fiscal conservative”. During her 6
years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over
33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the
City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation
(1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a
regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she
promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they
benefited residents.

The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration
weren’t enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed
money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it
with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage
the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said
she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a
new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a
multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece
of property that the City didn’t even have clear title to, that was
still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers
involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the
community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it
would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that
could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.

While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office
redecorated more than once.

These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.

As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus
in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will
make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she
proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.

In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she
recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while
she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's
surplus, borrow for needs.

She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas
or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by
her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the
basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected
City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from
the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents
rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's
attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew
her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the
Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for
Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin
fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as
Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people,
creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally
grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power
to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the
case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated”
her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top
cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure
and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that
an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't
fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation
for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen
contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she
later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to
replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded
for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew
her support.

She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in
help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town
introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council
became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She
abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn’t
like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.

Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything
publicly about her.

When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got
the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one
of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no
background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great
job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the
high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the
structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this
Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party)
engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some
undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all
her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and
garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a
gutsy fighter against the “old boys’ club” when she tically quit,
exposing this man’s ethics violations (for which he was fined).

As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from
Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel
politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the “bridge to
nowhere” after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.

As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget
guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing
projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative
action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply
because she was not aware of their importance--but with the unobservant
she had gained a reputation as “anti-pork”.

She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party
leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated
them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a
fiscal conservative.

Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah.
They call her “Sarah Barracuda” because of her unbridled ambition and
predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly
stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made
point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's
mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and
experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.

As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package
of legislation known as “AGIA” that forced the oil companies to march
to the beat of her drum.

Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife
Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to
global warming. She campaigned “as a private citizen” against a state
initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from
pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the
state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State’s
lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior’s decision to list polar
bears as threatened species.

McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a
heartbeat away from being President.

There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more
knowledgeable and experienced than she.

However, there’s a lot of people who have underestimated her and are
regretting it.


CLAIM VS FACT
•“Hockey mom”: true for a few years
•“PTA mom”: true years ago when her first-born was in elementary
school, not since
•“NRA supporter”: absolutely true
•social conservative: mixed. Opposes *beep* marriage, BUT vetoed a bill
that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships
(said she did this because it was unconsitutional).
•pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to
promote it.
•“Pro-life”: mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down’s syndrome baby
BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life
legislation
•“Experienced”: Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has
residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska.
No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on
supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city
administrator to run town of about 5,000.
•political maverick: not at all
•gutsy: absolutely!
•open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at
explaining actions.
•has a developed philosophy of public policy: no
•”a Greenie”: no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores
and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.
•fiscal conservative: not by my definition!
•pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city
without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built
streets to early 20th century standards.
•pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on
residents
•pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city
government in Wasilla’s history.
•pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union
doesn’t make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim
that she is pro-labor/pro-union.

WHY AM I WRITING THIS?

First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed
voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting
programs in the schools. If you google my name (Anne Kilkenny +
Alaska), you will find references to my participation in local
government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.

Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen
when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because
few have gone to as many City Council meetings.

Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out
of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no
fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will
cost me somehow in the future: that’s life.

Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100
or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's
attempt at censorship.

Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to
say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.

CAVEATS
I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in
spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor)
from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of
Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust
for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible
for a private person to get any info out of City Hall--they are
swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.

You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the
population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The
day Palin’s selection was announced a city official told me that the
current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was
5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to
2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90’s.

Anne Kilkenny
August 31, 2008
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #105
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Well since they both are using professional speech writers you think they want to keep their facts straight.

Or McCain could just go to Snopes.com and find out all about Palin.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/kilkenny.asp
You print that letter like it is some kind of smoking gun.
One persons opinion.
It seems to confirm her attributes more that it exposes her faults.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #106
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You print that letter like it is some kind of smoking gun.
One persons opinion.
It seems to confirm her attributes more that it exposes her faults.
I don't trust any article that says anything about Hilary Clinton having good looks.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #107
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But it shows a fast simple solution.
The upkeep on a jet like that is $$expensive$$.

I worked for the feds for thirty years and the waste and destruction I personally witnessed is unfathomable. And I know I only seen a little bit of whats out there.
Agree, the story says a bunch of good things about her.

I was merely trying to keep the story straight, that the erroneous claim of "selling the plane on Ebay for a profit" was a McCain misquote, not Palin lie. She never said that.

I'm wondering about "the rest of the story" that we haven't been told though. Surely, given that the state capital can not be reached by land, and much of the state can only be reached by air, and the immense size of the state, the Govonor must have some type of plane to get around. What it is?
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Old September 6th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
I don't trust any article that says anything about Hilary Clinton having good looks.
swweeet.


People who would vote for Hitlery shouldn't vote for Palin. They are total opposite in every way.
Unless you just want to see a split-tail in the white house, then go for it. The right thing for the wrong reason.
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Old September 6th, 2008, 03:04 PM   #109
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Agree, the story says a bunch of good things about her.

I was merely trying to keep the story straight, that the erroneous claim of "selling the plane on Ebay for a profit" was a McCain misquote, not Palin lie. She never said that.

I'm wondering about "the rest of the story" that we haven't been told though. Surely, given that the state capital can not be reached by land, and much of the state can only be reached by air, and the immense size of the state, the Govonor must have some type of plane to get around. What it is?
I'm sure they have plenty of air resources available. That state is packed with bush pilots and puddle jumpers.

But an executive jet?

Last edited by XXXJ; September 6th, 2008 at 03:19 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 08:36 AM   #110
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Agree, the story says a bunch of good things about her.

I was merely trying to keep the story straight, that the erroneous claim of "selling the plane on Ebay for a profit" was a McCain misquote, not Palin lie. She never said that.

I'm wondering about "the rest of the story" that we haven't been told though. Surely, given that the state capital can not be reached by land, and much of the state can only be reached by air, and the immense size of the state, the Govonor must have some type of plane to get around. What it is?
From what I heard, when she flies, she uses commercial airlines and flies coach. Although I can't find a source for that claim. I also heard she owns a floater plane. I imagine you won't be seeing her in a coach seat anymore anyway, I think the secret service would have an issue with that.

All this hub bub about the plane is missing the point. It's simple really, she sold the plane because it was an unnecessary luxury being paid by the tax payers of her state. Who cares how it was sold or if it made a profit? The plane should never been bought with tax payer money in the first place. Selling it for the best price possible was the responsible thing to do and she did it. That is the kind of leadership we need. End of story.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #111
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All this hub bub about the plane is missing the point. It's simple really, she sold the plane because it was an unnecessary luxury being paid by the tax payers of her state. Who cares how it was sold or if it made a profit? The plane should never been bought with tax payer money in the first place. Selling it for the best price possible was the responsible thing to do and she did it. That is the kind of leadership we need. End of story.
Shame on you for summarizing the simplicity of the issue.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 08:45 AM   #112
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I don't trust any article that says anything about Hilary Clinton having good looks.
x eleventyzillion
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #113
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Shame on you for summarizing the simplicity of the issue.
Well the other part of the issue that I was discussing was McCain miss telling the story claiming that she sold it on Ebay for a profit vs. putting it on Ebay, but eventually selling it by other means at a loss.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #114
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"at a loss" is always a debateable issue. Selling price is only part of the equation. What about cutting out maintenance costs, mortgage intrest, insurance, storage, pilot's fees, etc, etc?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:43 AM   #115
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Well the other part of the issue that I was discussing was McCain miss telling the story claiming that she sold it on Ebay for a profit vs. putting it on Ebay, but eventually selling it by other means at a loss.
That part I don't see as an issue. People mis-speak all the time. Unless you are saying he was telling a lie on purpose to make her look good. I don't know why he would do that on a minor detail of a story that can be easily verified by anyone who wants to look it up. The part that makes her look good is the part he got right. The part where she sold an unnecessary plane and saved the taxpayers money. How it was sold or for what price doesn't change the overall story.

I think he just mis-spoke or maybe misunderstood the situation. So what does that prove?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #116
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Link to text of speech....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...to_the_rn.html

She rocks. I see the future first female president.

My prediction: a 10 point bounce in the polls by Sept 11.
As predicted!

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_poli...mccain_10.html

ok, I know it's only one poll that shows 10 points (13 actually), but still....
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Old September 8th, 2008, 11:39 AM   #117
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That part I don't see as an issue. People mis-speak all the time. Unless you are saying he was telling a lie on purpose to make her look good. I don't know why he would do that on a minor detail of a story that can be easily verified by anyone who wants to look it up. The part that makes her look good is the part he got right. The part where she sold an unnecessary plane and saved the taxpayers money. How it was sold or for what price doesn't change the overall story.

I think he just mis-spoke or maybe misunderstood the situation. So what does that prove?
I agree, in and of itself it's not an issue. I just worry that if he's not more careful with what he says his opponents will bundle up a bunch of his "mis-speaks" and use them to try to paint him as a senile old man who can't keep his stories straight.
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